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Oh yeah, You should always keep your gear packaged neatly in your pack so that it doesn't get dirty or wet Not that they are always right, but I think FOH says that sometimes it is easier for the one just to stay in arrest and have the other climb out themself.

One other thing, and you can practice this close to home. It's not a bad idea to just stuff a pack with 40 lbs or so put on a harness and tie yourself off to an overhead anchored rope. then just fall off some boxes or something (with the slack out of the rope ) Crevasses are a lot more pleasant if you can get out of your pack, into prussicks, and standing comfortably upright while you wait on your team to rescue you.

Your not catapulted to your demise, but, when someone else is on the other end of the rope you realize your not in kansas anymore. It takes a few more people and the real deal but a few rounds of two tied up and one "falls" the other catches is good. Get a few others, set up a bomber anchor and have the others keep your ass from goin all the way in. This is best done with a larger group sometime with a few experienced folks in the party. To give you some ideas as to the difference Sobo did some tests that he posted a while back. I don't remember the thread but he could relate them to you.

I havn't tried anglin for squirrel, but. When I was a kid one of my worst wuppins was from Goose Stringing. I was told that Geese really like bacon (uncooked) but can't digest it. So one piece of 10 - 15 pound test and a piece of bacon. Feed it to a goose. A bit later you can pick it up rinse it off and feed it to the next one. I got caught when my uncle came out to see what the squaking was about in his goose pen. I had six geese all strung up and was trying to work some of the slack out.

That would make the route luck of the draw. If your boulder fell off and stopped inverted, do you need to climb the route head down, from top to bottom to "follow"?

Marylou, Ya it was an evolutionary thing to reinforce the corners. First I had just a sheet for a footprint, loved that. Next I wanted lighter for summer so I reinforced the corners so that I could go just poles and fly and leave the tent at home, worked good but doesn't keep the bugs out . My next idea is to try taping up a bathtub footprint but I havn't quite got up the energy for that trial. Still like the Tyvek, if you run it through the washer once it way helps the rattle and doesn't seem to affect the watertightness.

I havn't tried the Sil-nylon but I would expect the slippery to be a hassel. It may work if you have one of them tricky pads with the nonskid on the bottom, I don't. I must second the tyvek idea. I have the uber tech footprint, tyvek with duct tape gussets for the corners. Works great and considering I dirt bagged the scrap from a construction site for a gimme it's the best footprint I've tried.

Thanks for all the good beta. I am hoping to get over their in the next week or two probably for a couple days. I also may stoppng there later this fall. Kinda cool this good friend knew I was a climber but he was never into it, never took up any of my invites. So I he moves and I don't hear from him for a long time, then I get this call that he is starting to climb loves it and wants me to come visit. I'm makin up a trip to do ??? then hope to get back soon.

I just got an invite for a trip to Montana. An old friend has taken up climbing and wants me to come visit. He says that there are some nice walls on a Mesa just outside Billings where he lives. I don't remember seeing any (wasn't really lookin last time I was there). Anyone know of stuff out that way and what is it?

You missed it those arent spotters, there worshippers.

This is an opportunity for someone to show off geekness. My experience and thoughts say that the sun rises earlier and sets later when your at altitude. I've never actually checked. Anybody know how much effect altitude has?

Some years back in Seattle it was legal for a citizen to wave over an officer if they were exceeding the posted limit without warning devices in operation. You could then place them under private persons arrest than write them a ticket out of their book. That was fun (but stupid) for a while. I once received a ticket for 56 in a 55 zone. That loophole has since been plugged.

Why think 'conceptually' when we can address REALITY. A half-rope system allows us to reduce rope drag over a single rope system. Period. And, no CBS, as engineers/designers, Rumr and I aren't really "conceptual thinkers". Actually the relevant factor is the ratio of the diameter of the rope over the radius of the inside rope bearing curve of the biner. Smaller ropes or bigger biners reduce this. That's why using multiple biners on a top rope anchor makes it easier. Duh. Sanitation engineer? I think another factor is the weight of the line. With a single there is more weight hanging and so at each bend you have the potential to develop more friction. With two lines each one weighs less and so develops less. My experience is like Matts in that I havn't noticed any difference. Sounds like a boring weekend project climb this pitch single then again with twins, tie a scale on your line and check it out. Just dont fall with that thing.

Oh Common, that's part of the fun of cc.com. Any other forum gets 6 or seven posts about whether or not to rap off of a sling. Here we have gotten 75 and still going. Wait till you see what you can do to tieing in.

Sorry to hear of your loss Greg. That is so suck. sorry about the girlfriends stuff too. AT it may be that half is internal loss. Sucky people cost us all a lot. A few years back my son was starting to become aware of the cost of life. He asked me how come I charged so much for the work I do. We sat down with a pencil and found that 58% of my fees went straight out the door to bonds, liability coverage and insurance. He commented that it would be a lot better if we all just played fair.

I think I have. Last fall I was at Mt Erie. This group showed up from the top and set up a rope. I was thinking it was kind of a bizzare top rope set up. They rapped about four times each than picked up there gear and left. I thought they were just kids goofing off but maybe they thought it was a sport.

K&J, I don't know how to connect a thread. But a couple pages back here on the gear forum there was a thread about Motorcycle Goggles for glaciers. All the comments were pretty positive. I just got a pair and they look like they will work real well, havn't been out and tried yet. I liked the price too.

Definatley become well acquianted with climbing anchors. John Long and Craig Lubens have a book out called Advanced Rock Climbing. It has some pretty good sections on belay stations and rope management. Practice that up front it is no fun when the belay turns into a rats nest.

That Erie guide almost made it out. I talked with Dallas a little bit ago. He had it printed and than at the binding they somehow managed to destroy all copies. He has searched out a new printer and bindery. The new hopefull date is this July. For now he has some stuff about routes on his web page MT Erie Hope it gets out this summer

MultiP, I think your right on but maybe a little short sighted. Four strokes are heavier and quiter and tend towards under powered that much is given. It can be over come but that COSTS. I think that the snowmobiles are not far out of the sights of the EPA though. A couple years back they lit into the boating world and gave them a couple years to clean up or shut down. This led to some huge changes in two stroke and four stroke tech for boats. The boat world got drug into it kickin and screamin. One thing that has been learned by groups like Access Fund and such is that if the people push their own changes first the Gov. makes less of a mess out of stuff. I think that we all agree that we would hate to see the BC situation if we let the Gov. due anything they wanted without a little bitchin from us little guys. Is there any biler group that is tryin to get in front of the game instead of pushed around?

This little boy walks into the kitchen and says "Mom, how much do you weigh?" Son, it's not polite to ask a woman that question. So he goes to play and comes back a bit later. "Mom, how old are you?" Son, it's not polite to ask a woman that question. Oh, and he goes out to play After a bit the dad goes and explains that mom is right but if you really need to know go in and ask nicely to see her drivers license. Thanks Dad and in the house he goes. After a bit he comes out all excited. Dad, Dad quess what, Mom is 36 years old, she is 140 pounds, and (he leans over and whispers) Mom got an "F" in sex.

I don't know about the practical. I understand that there is some trickle down into Football pads. One of his previous test was a 150' fall (I think it was a tumble) no injuries. I have heard that some bomb squads are buying these so they can just pick up the bomb and carry it. It all sounds kinda stuuupid to me.

Along with this rapidly becoming cliche is another proven cliche that "Discretion is the better part of valour" I agree that it is good to push yourself. It's also good to have all your body parts intact when your done for the day.

I have to agree. It's cheeper, and if I do spend the money I would rather buy some new gear than a new pad. I really am partial to the end of a whipper over the end of a groundfall anyway.

I don't think I would want to drag a pad to the base of most of the climbs I do. That said I might be a little more at ease if there was one down there sometimes. If I started out and couldn't get any pro for the lower 20 - 30 (approx a highball or two) I'd be a little sketched before I got somethin. With a few pieces in I don't have trouble with runnin out 30 feet if need be.