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Hey fox, I was there for a while the end of the month. Didn't spend much time around the breadloaves. I did not see any camera when I was there and I did see snow. Don't know that I will be back soon. Maybe we will find it "later"

DC, I have a set of those. I love them, what I love is that they are light weight (for a full on boot) and that they fit my feet better than the others I have had. The biggest problem I have had is that the rand does not seem to be very durable. If I get into much scree with these on I often find little tears. I can't say for sure if these pop up more often than the same type tears did on my other boots. Over all I really like mine. and yes I have crampons that fit. I have a used newmatics and universals both work great.

The JB is a good idea to keep things around. You may also stop by a auto parts store and get some locktight. There are a few differant grades and there is a red variety that "requires heat or Mechanical force to remove". This might be a little less difficult to use if the anchor is not easy.

Stefan, There is still the concern about heat shielding. This plane is shielded, BUT, Rutan made a very differant approach as well. The shuttle comes in fast and comes down fast generating lots of heat. With this plane when they come down the wings fold into a differant shape that forces it to fall slowly but under control. (kind of like when you drop a paper cone, falls straight but not fast). The plane than comes down in a slow spiral (180 mph ish) until it is ready to start flying again. than they unfold the wings and start flying once more. Hope that makes enough sense.

Thrill, I may take your approach if someone raced up on me and told me they were passing now. I think that it is fair for the first on to be first and the other party should ask to pass. This done it is only reasonable that the second party be allowed as soon as an agreement as to how can be made. On the other hand. If I was on the sharp end and had a newbie belay slave tagging along. I may not agree with the "passing strategy" that they arranged.

Matt, I think your right on about SPQ coming back to fix it. One suggestion is to really work on the land manager comprehension of what it means to us a group. One of the points I was trying to bring out in my previous post is that in my location they were very low impact. This was I think largely due to the land managers (rangers especially) setting down there foot ahead of time and spelling out what was and was not acceptable and how it was to be when they left. That was all accomplished before the event and for this problem that window has closed and so we need something differant.

Dryad, I think that you would still have some long tails. The length of line that I use for my texas is shorter than my cordolette. But it is a good idea to think through, if you need help then whatever works is good. It is my understanding that for rescue stuff spectra is not good for a prussick. Thats only because of the low melting point of spectra and the possibility of generating enough heat if you catch a fall with the prussick. I don't think that you would get there with a texas rig. One other challenge I just went through. If you are using floss or some other small glacier rope there may not be enough size difference for the prussick to work, unless you have a 4 mm spectra cordolette.

One of the big hassles is the size of these events. SPQ did not have any helicopters but lots of folks like the spectacle that do. I talked with several of the racers during the open water kayak portion. The comment was that by far the worst water and wave conditions that they had to navigate were the downwash of the local news and tourist helo's coming in for a look. I don't know about Larrabee. It was way vacant. At Moran they had a big party and let the whole community come. Same at Darrington, by Bayview there wasn't much party left.

I don't want to throw too much of a monkey wrench into this discussion, but. SPQ has been working with local business and land managers for 7 -8 months that I have been part of. I was not involved in any way with the climbing as I was in a business relationship for technical work. What local wildland stuff was impacted they were very good at contacting managers and discussing what was acceptable and unacceptable pre and post race conditions. I am all for having them set right, or pay for doing so, with regards to any wrongs done. It is a great oppurtunity to build on some relationships and show that we as climbers are concerned reasonable people. Let's be decent in our approach. The state parks people up here were firm and reasonable and in the end the only impact was that the driftwood on the beach was rearranged so that it looked better. Our first winter storm will "adjust" that. I have to note that I was not in any of the back country areas. I did make a trip into the Baker area that was dropped and was at most of the transition points but not the intermediate checkpoints. In the areas that I was at they were pretty good at being low impact. These areas were already "developed" and so it was easy for them to be "low impact". Getting a good view of what they actually left behind is a perfect start.

I like ovals for racking stuff, with a bunch of nuts it's easier to sort when they slide around easier. They are also nice for aiding as they help stop that nerve wracking jerk when the etrier slide to the "bottom" of the D. They are heavy though. Most of my ovals are slowly being used as Leavers. I like the new Light weight stuff if I am buying new. Bent gates give you more room to make a difficult clip or get more junk in there. Wire gates don't freeze shut. Matts right about making sure you have a large belay beiner. After that I don't worry too much theres nothing wrong with just having a bunch and choosing what you need when you get there. One other advantage to wire gates is that they resist getting slapped open in a fall as the gate has far less mass than a solid gate. I don't count on this much as I try to position whatever beiner to not get slapped to start with. So much for a little random rambling, hope it helps a bit.

OW thanks for the info. I had seen the discussion at RC.com and looked at the tourist stuff. The texas folk say it is like the ultimate bouldering spot tending to be mostly highballs. Weird sculpted rock though. No one seems to have direct beta other than "it's cool" or "it's the shiznit" Looks like I will just stop and play for aday or two.

Thats all well and good, except, I need to spend several days in Austin, a couple in San Diego, a couple in Pampa, and I am planning on a few in Co. Flying to Idaho doesn't help. A little climbin along the way always seems to help though. No takers on the NM beta?

Ghengis might have had 60 in his horde. I always heard that he had horde's (note the plural) whenever he traveled.

In the mid 70's I was out road trippin and climbed at a place called City of the Rocks. Loved it and never had a chance to go back. A few years ago I stopped by in southeren Idaho and climbed at the city but wondered where all the routes I had done the first time went. And why is this rock Sooo differant. So this road trip I bought a guide and still couldn't find any of the old routes. But then in another part of the trip I'm looking over my maps and find "City of the Rocks" in southern New Mexico. It is a wildly erroded outcropping of Volcanic Rhyolite. That's the one I remembered I was just a little off in my location. Any body out there have any beta on The City in NM or know a link to a New Mexico climbers site? This time of year New Mexico sounds funner to climb than Idaho anyway.

A memorial of sorts was today. The race is over with the last of the teams arriving last night. Today as the Australian team and the nike team ( the others injured in the same incident) paddled in with their kayaks all the rest of us that could find a kayak went out to join them and then escort Nigels Brother paddleing back with his brothers ashes. Touching scene and it went a long way to reinforce that the "down to earth, outdoors" types are some of the best people to be around in the hard times. I have yet to be included in any of the conclusions from investigations (if they have one yet) I will post something if they are any differant than what we has already been posted.

Ya Cammilo, wev'e seen that one before. but I had missed the part in the beginning about the superball. A personal story of stupid involving superballs to follow. When I was a young trouble maker the first "Skyscraper" was built in Seattle. The Rainer building I think is what it was called. 50 stories of new world and all that stuff. It had 6 elevators, 2 for floors 1 - 20, 2 for floors 21 - 40 , and 2 for 41 -50. All of them were set to take approximatley the same time to reach ground level. About once every month some friends and I would travel down there with our black superballs and go to the highest public access floor (49) and wait for no one to be around. Then when we got in the elevator and pushed the 1 button we would wait carefully. When the elevator started to fall we would drop the ball and watch as gravity would apperantley reduce to half. When the brakes started on the ball would slam into the floor and then go nuts while we hid in the corner trying not to get hit. After a couple rounds this always ended up with the lobby attendant "asking us to leave". Sometimes it was hard to explain the bruises to mom. Have a great day.

HI All, The race is back on, I believe that they are going to keep the ropes in after all. The did do some fiddleing with the southern section (Twin peaks, Dickerman, Ice caves) One of the challenges is that this was an orienteering section and the teams were trying to follow the compass to the checkpoint and not necessarily taking the easy route. They checked in at the first check point were given course and distance cards with had to be punched at the stations then show up at the next check point with it complete. Two teams have withdrawn. One had not even made it to the first Baker checkpoint when the accident happened. One was just really worked. Everyone is doing a little better in camp. A fair amount of chat with family and team mates. The general feeling is to keep going but that the teams being a little more vigilant would be good. As to the kayaks being tubs, I dont know. I worked at CP4 for a bit. The teams left Rosario and went clockwise to Yellow Island, Back to Orcas, out to Sucia island, then around to Orcas South of Point Lawrence. (About 40 miles of open water) The leading teams were checking in just over seven hours from start. Not too tubby If something comes up that is relavent I will get back to ya-all.

I have been working with the support team for this race. It appears that they wil be dropping the ropes portion, still not released yet. They already dropped the Baker Portion. The teams that made it that far were diverted past that section. The proposed route had them arriving at the railroad grade and then making a quick lap up the emmons route and back out to the east of Sherman peak. they were to get back to the jumping off point and then on into the mountains via mountain bike. This entire section was determined to be to dangerous. I am not sure of the ropes portion that was dropped. It was a 1500ft rope jug followed by a 900 rap. It was to be 9 miles south of Darrington on "The Fin". Everyone up here that is involved is pretty bummed at the moment.

Wally, I remember that one. Disturbing, what was worse I seem to recall that it was a mountain rescue training excercise. They had stableized the "victim" and then during the evac the helicopter had trouble. The crew chief cut the cable rather than lose the chopper. I heard somewhere that both persons are still involved in rescue work. That's some big cajones.

SB, the post that toast put up is right on. Both mine and his lead the same way. It boils down to keep your head together and stay in control all the way through the fall. Don't let any body fool you. I have never met a climber that is all laid back and comfy in a fall.

MtnFreak, Thanks for the info. I don't follow the run around on Rainer and you helped in what's going on. It's cool that other groups get some shot at guideing. I kinda like having a service that keeps most of the gumbies in one place so that the rest of us can avoid them if we want.

SB, I'll have to go look at Longs book. I can only think of two kinds of falls. 1) the ones that you see coming. 2) the ones where you magically find yourself not attached to the rock anymore. For the first it's best to try not. In the alpine just don't go there. If your there already then make your last moments "preparing" for the fall (is my rope right, do I have a clear fall line, HANG ON, etc ) these are mostly silly efforts as it goes pretty quick and if you could do these you probably could keep yourself from falling. Big help here is to keep your head together and don't freak. For the second kind, it's not really magic but you just popped and your accelerating before you realize it. This is why you keep your rope in mind while you climb. Here again keeping your head together helps and relax and enjoy it helps. It's hard to have fun in a fall but falling all tensed up can leave you more sore afterwards. It helps to set some bomber anchors and practice some falls under supervision to be more comfy. Before your falls think through direction and positionong and you'll get used to it soon enough. Then again I'm sure most of us (those who fit the mold) remember their first leader fall. It is way liberating when you are OK and the gear you placed held and your belayer caught you, everything just worked. Then after you change your shorts you just fine.

SB, I'll have to go look at Longs book. I can only think of two kinds of falls. 1) the ones that you see coming. 2) the ones where you magically find yourself not attached to the rock anymore. For the first it's best to try not. In the alpine just don't go there. If your there already then make your last moments "preparing" for the fall (is my rope right, do I have a clear fall line, HANG ON, etc ) these are mostly silly efforts as it goes pretty quick and if you could do these you probably could keep yourself from falling. Big help here is to keep your head together and don't freak. For the second kind, it's not really magic but you just popped and your accelerating before you realize it. This is why you keep your rope in mind while you climb. Here again keeping your head together helps and relax and enjoy it helps. It's hard to have fun in a fall but falling all tensed up can leave you more sore afterwards. It helps to set some bomber anchors and practice some falls under supervision to me more comfy. Before your falls think through direction and positionong and you'll get used to it soon enough. Then again I'm sure most of us (those who fit the mold) remember their first leader fall. It is way liberating when you are OK and the gear you placed held and your belayer caught you, everything just worked. Then after you change your shorts you just fine.

Good on ya for working on the rope position. If your climbing fairly straight up it should go down betwwen your legs. If your traversing it should exit in front to that side. You always want it in front of you and exiting so that it points roughly at the last piece. I find that the worst routes for me are the ones that go up at about a 30 degree, seems the rope is always under foot and that is when I am most tempted to let it lay behind my leg.

Whose Mom is this