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I just got a note from Dallas. The whole thing is back at the printer. He expects to have new books in hand in 3-4 weeks. He says that he did add some new stuff from the 2003 try. Lets just hope this one comes back from the printers.

This is my biggest complaint with the plastic MSRs. I really liked the new lightnings when I tested them out. they were also quite a bit lighter. It seems to me that they were a little over three pounds not bad for weight. I am not sure that for the limited slowshoeing that I do that I want to spend the bucks. Definatley not this year anyway.

Good luck nols, When I was there in oct last I did some small stuff (second on Rimers) also there was a wall at the river that I will have to look for the name. But the climbers that I talked with looked at me like I was from mars when I suggested multipitch or trad in the same sentance as local Fun climbing though and the folks on texasclimbers were cool.

Hey Luke, Maybe you can track down and send some of those sick ice boulder probs. Whatta ya think FA on a V8/W14?

Allison, how's your tyvek floor holding up on the snow? I'm not Allison but I do have a couple of footprints that I use that are tyvek. I have had good luck with them on the snow. I did have one time last year that I got a little damp but then again it was in the upper 30's low 40's and every thing wa slowly melting. Over all I have been pretty happy with mine. I may have a piece you can have Blake how big you looking for?

I havn't heard that specifically. I have heard from several places that stretching cold is detremental to muscles. You should do warm up stuff first and stretch after that. I some time back changed to doing some warm up easy climbs and then climbing hard for a bit and then do a full set of streches after I am done. Seems to work great. The hardest part for me is getting back to the car after a crag and committing to 5 or 10 worth of stretches when the beer is calling me.

DP, your right if the threads are rotting out it is a them problem. Most of the gear that I have that I feel like I got "life" out of is in the eight to ten year range. Some of my stuff I am with griz on. Gaiters, gloves (the ones I climb in) for instance I plan on them being disposable. I feel like jackets and pants that I'm hiking or sitting around camp should give me about 8-10 years. I usually find some new tech stuff that I replace it with first anyway. I usually don't bitch if the stitching breaks at one spot and I can patch it. If it's just coming apart all over I make em replace it. Is that more in line with your first question?

I am with Fools congress. Lifetime means the reasonable life of the product. If you take in gaiters that are full of crampon holes that past life. If they are well cared for but used, they should stay good. Same with a jacket. Seams parting, delaming, leaky units are manufactures problems. Torn on the rocks, melted in the fire, "I accidently towed my truck with it" are lifetime past due.

I agree with dechristo. If you establish a stretching routine it will greatly improve your range. I have a set of 5 or so stretches that I do. I think it is important to make it simple. That way it is easy to fit in one set every day. Just stretch and hold for 30-50 seconds once through and you only need 10 minutes or so. Stretch when the muscles are warm and do em every day. After a bit notice how much better things are.

I think you are correct but only in a perfect situation. In our world things such as inertia exist. When a climber falls the force is exerted on the biner. Part of the force is resisted as friction in the biner. The rest is redirected to the belayer. At the catch the belayer is static and will feel the impact at full force. This is more than enough to set the belayer in motion. Some of the force is resisted with the weight of the belayer, another portion is spent in accelerating the belayer upwards. Part of the disparity that I see in this discussion is in this issue. The force that it takes to move the belayer is more than the weight of the belayer. While I would agree that the total force is not a perfect doubleing of the impact, it is definatley well above the sum of the weights. By going with the double concept you end up with a positve saftey margin. If you go the sum of the weights it becomes a negative margin. Sounds like a fun day to get a few load cells and a case of some good brew. We can take turns falling and catching while trying to get good measurments.

Scrambled, You are right about the movement issue. You are not correct about the force. When you fall this applies a force to the rope. It is redirected through a pulley (the carabiner) and then the force is resisted at an equal amount (minus friction) by the belayer. If you look back at your basic physics or simple machines this is in effect a 2:1 pulley system which doubles the force that the pulley can excert. In this case the force applied to the anchor. In your example there is a flaw in that just because the rope does not move does not mean that the force is not applied. I think that in your original question your are correct in that using one piece out of your anchor array can cause failure in a place you don't want it.

Acrobat acts used to do this thing where they tied a knot on the end of a piece of pipe. Then by leaning back and using the rope they could climb/balance up the pipe. Once they were far enough up they would unweight the knot and it would fall off leaving them standing on the pipe. I was taught that knot once upon a time and thought it was pretty useless. If I play around some I may be able to send out some info. (just in case you want to stand on a piece of pipe)

Cut this out of a note I received about this years nominees and winners of the Darwin. Have to wonder about admitting to the facts. Thought it was worth sharing. Finally, THE WINNER!!!: [Arkansas Democrat Gazette]: Two local men were injured when their pickup truck left the road and struck a tree near Cotton Patch on State Highway 38 early Monday. Woodruff County deputy Dovey Snyder reported the accident shortly after midnight Monday. Thurston Poole, 33, of Des Arc, and Billy Ray Wallis, 38, of Little Rock, were returning to Des Arc after a frog giggling trip on an overcast Sunday night when Poole's pickup truck headlights malfunctioned. The two men concluded that the headlight fuse on the older model truck had burned out. As a replacement fuse was not available, Wallis noticed that the .22 caliber bullet from his pistol fit perfectly into the fuse box next to the steering wheel column. Upon inserting the bullet the headlights again began to operate properly, and the two men proceeded on eastbound toward the White River Bridge. After traveling approximately 20 miles, and just before crossing the river, the bullet apparently overheated, discharged, and struck Poole in the testicles. The vehicle swerved sharply right, exiting the pavement, and striking a tree. Poole suffered only minor cuts and abrasions from the accident, but will require extensive surgery to repair the damage to his testicles, which will never operate as intended. Wallis sustained a broken clavicle and was treated and released. "Thank God we weren't on that bridge when Thurston shot his balls off, or we might both be dead", stated Wallis. "I've been a trooper for 10 years in this part of the world, but this is a first for me. I can't believe that those two would admit how this accident happened," said Snyder. Upon being notified of the wreck, Lavinia (Poole's wife) asked how many frogs the boys had caught and did anyone get them from the truck? (Though Poole and Wallis did not die as a result of their misadventure as normally required by Darwin Award Official Rules, it can be argued that Poole DID, in fact, effectively remove himself from the gene pool.

Just a quick note for those Slow shoe types that we all know exist. I had the chance yesterday to evaluate a new set of the MSR Lightnings. I arrived at Baker ski area such to leave about 8:00 and headed out to try and put a test on them. We hiked up the lake chain then made a fairly direct climb up a couple gulleys to the summit of Mt Herman and then back out to get the shoes back to the distributer before evening. My first impression was that they were noticebly lighter than my current shoes (old grey MSR's) they also pack very flat so hauling them was easy. I found the new bindings to be quick and easy as well as very mitten or glove friendly. Later I also found them to be quite secure. At the first stop I realized that the new fabric deck was way quieter than my plastic decks this is a real bonus. In typical cascade snow they were a good size shoe for me(175 lbs plus 30 lbs of pack wieght) though you do lose the option of tails. We did some direct steep stuff and the televator addition is nice for that. At a couple places we traversed some consolidated avy debris, rough hard ground but the shoes were quite nimble and the outside rail crampoons worked great. One down side I noted, the straps have a clip that is supposed to keep the tails under control. When we were able to get into some deep powdery stuff the tails would get pushed out of their clips by the snow. I found this a little distracting as it allowed the straps to be loose right to the buckles, and I am nervous without some redundacy. If I ignored it, the trick buckles were secure and never sliped but if I were to own a set I would definatley change the keepers around. I was not able to find any icy patches to really try how well they resist sliding around. (33f at 5400 ft with snow falling.) In general I thought they were pretty good shoes and was strongly tempted to upgrade from my old war horses. Just thought that some of the board would be interested in the input. Overall I had a pretty sweet day on an easy peak running around in the snow.

JDJ, I was looking through some stuff of John Longs recently. He has a method that he recomends for climbing a rope when you are stuck short on gear. It calls for a double length sling (or two singles girth hitched) these you tie as a Bachman and then the long end goes to your harness via a locker. Then you tie a figure-8 on a bight a little less than 1/3 of your cordolette. The loop needs to be large enough that you can tie another Bachman with the loop. The short tail goes to the locker on your harness and is adjusted so that both bachmans can be together. The long leg is tied into a foot loop or a bowline on a bight (for both feet) such that you can high step into them without too much effort. After that it is climb with the cordolette and rest into the sling. I gave it a quick try and it works pretty well. Nice set up for one sling, one cordolette, and three beiners (one locking)

Cracked, you can't weigh a Kn one is mass and the other is force. But you are right about the force. By the time a force of the fall is translated through the top beiner and the other protection, the belayer doesn't see a large force (sometimes). I have had leaders fall on ropes with a heinous rope path where I barely felt the fall. I don't think that a screamer would help unless the path was real clean, and even then it would be of limited assistance.

PP thanks for the link, good to have something to look at later. CBS yes mitigated is the word but then again it doesn't seem that correct grammar and such is too critical on this board.

I am 6'1" 175 lbs. I don't have much problem on the runout parts (at least related to the rope). I believe that the physics of being a fatty is that the impact force is "regulated" by the rope. A fatty endures the same force for a longer period of time and stretches the rope farther when they do fall. The pro recieves the same force (8Kn doupled over a beiner is 16Kn no matter who is generating it). That causes me to keep more mindfull of the possibility of decking due to stretch when I am running out early. Also I think that I tend to "harden" a rope quicker. Fatties that suck fall and work the rope more.

I made a donation quite a while back and it's still riding. No stickers or nothin. I figure thet will get around to it at some point. Hopefully before this years donation runs out. Jon/Timmy it's still a great site. Thanks for puttin up with all of us goofballs.

Mac, I think that you can trust the numbers it is the same amount of work. BUT, when you run you are at a somewhat fixed cadence and the output variation is felt directly. When you bike you keep a cadence and just shift gears so that you always work at an eficient place. If you climb the same hill in too tall of a gear and push your way up or too low and just spin it is the same amount of work only you feel it differant. That said I bike for training and run for warmups or if time is limited. If it is a training ride I sometimes work the gears to create more work and variation.

My experience, first the "modified" Gri-Gri is not a Petzl approved item. Second I often solo with a Gri-Gri, here's the catch. Without the modification you can occasionally fall in such a way that the device does not get loaded correctly and therefore does not brake. With the modification (the loop goes to a chest harness) you keep the orientation right and so get caught well. I feel like it is a pain to feed either way. Practice helps. Third, I think that a Gri-Gri will hold 9Kn in a textbook catch. My experience is that the catches have been solid and tend to be a little on the stiff side so it would seems to match the book. I've no experience with big whippers to know what it would do to your rope. My $.02

I had a friend that used to prank in the stalls. He would wad up some TP and then smear a little peanut butter on it. Later while sitting in a stall he would "drop" it just past the edge of the divider and than ask " Would you mind handing that back, I'm not finished with it yet?" I guess he got some reactions that were great I never had the nerve to follow his lead.

A friend of mine was once rescued with one of those helium balloon air grabs where a plane grabs the rope with a fork on the way by. He used to say that it was the most exciteing thing he ever did. If you parachute in you could always get out with a balloon. No reason to introduce a boring walk or anything.

Hohm, I was talking with a pro photog a while back and he said what they use is umbilical type battery pack for sub zero shots. After some discussion we hatched an idea for a few radio shack parts and some time that would make a battery pack that plugs into the AC in port so that the batteries stay warm. I'm going to try it out and I will post a report on how well it works when you get into the cold.

I'm back from road trippin. Awesome time but vehicle problems suck. Didn't get to climb in city N.M. I did do some short route stuff in Austin and talked to a local there who said that yes New Mexico is the place I remembered. He says it rocks,no guides only local beta, and it hasn't been "discovered" yet. I so miss it now. I did have some great other climbs. Awesome trip with Griz up Quandry peak and then a lttle foray into Arches national park and topped off with three days at the city in Idaho. Kinda fun, the ranger stopped by once and said "your the only person in the whole reserve, you can do anything you want." A little cold and snowy but sweet times doing anything I wanted. Definatley much better at my roped solo stuff after that. I will try and get pictures and such together and share soon.