chris

So I'm doing some documentation of place names in the Twin Sister Range, and I'm investigating the Green Creek Wall. I haven't been there myself, and I'm a little unclear about precisely what elevation and aspect its located at. Can anyone tell me?

Seattle Fish Company. 4435 California Ave. S.W., 206-938-7576. WEST SEATTLE Great stuff!

Why? There's no precedent for announcing your permit or respect-for-authority permission when climbing anything else, is there? And I think too many people here on this site are giving Patagonia way too much responsiblity for Potter's actions and PR. Patagonia (to my knowledge) does not pay in advance, or hire before hand, photographers or cameramen to document climbs. Instead, independent phtographers and camaeramen, who have developed working relationships with climbers, take the photos and film and earn their income by selling the publication rights to magazines and gear companies. So Patagonia most likely had no foreknowledge of this event. This also explains their press release - why would they fact check the legality of a climb of one of their ambassadors. If you're prepared to drop Patagonia because they provide sponsorship for Potter, than you better do the same for the hardware, rope company, and shoe company that are sponsoring him as well. I can easily believe that Dean asked for clarification of the rules and received verbal permission, only to find out later that the ranger was wrong. In 2003 I was told I didn't need a backcountry overnight permit if I was planning on climbing a peak in one day, only to be stopped on the approach, and made to wait while a "provisional permit" was filed for me over the radio. I had called the ranger station in advance to clarify that permit process, and afterwards a second ranger clearly stated that I shouldn't have needed a permit too. So either two rangers were wrong in giving me the go-ahead, or three rangers were wrong to hold me up for 45 minutes to get me a permit that I may or may not have needed. While my personal experience didn't occur in Arches NP, it does serve as an example that the mistake may not have been entirely Potter's.

Lets get rid of the Llama. Be willing to allow more risk to re-enter the equation when climbing Denali. What I'm reading here is that the service (high-altitude rescue via helicopter) is too expensive for its intended community (climbers on Denali). So let's get rid of it and accept the fact that more people will die or epic.

Ravenna Park is in Seattle, running alongside Ravenna Boulevard. Duh. A simple Google search for "ravenna park" get this as the very first hit: http://www.ci.seattle.wa.us/parks/parkspaces/ravenna.htm

It would appear that Arches National Park is adopting a new approach of "look, but don't touch" when managing visitors into the park. God forbid somebody may actually move around and through the environment in sight of others.

OK, I may get flamed for this. Why are the arches closed to climbing? 1) Fear of falling over. What do you think the odds are of an umpteen-ton arch standing so precariously that a 200-lb climber can tip it over? 2) Fear of damage. Concern that bolts, gear placements, fixed anchors, and multiple rappels will damage an arch. This concern is valid. But the NPS doesn't say why climbing is banned on USGS named arches, just that it is banned. I think Mr. Potter addressed these concerns admirably by climbing solo and then rappelling without fixed anchors. I was imagining a counter-balanced rappel utilizing someone on the ground connected to the opposite strand of the rope. 3) Climbing on named features is bad, becuase it takes away from others enjoyment of natural views and scenery. Well thank god this policy isn't in effect in North Cascades National Park, Rainier National Park, Yosemite National Park, Joshua Tree National Park, Grand Teton National Park, or Devil's Tower National Monument. Now, despite saying all this, I think that what Dean did was illegal. The regs, however poorly written, were pretty clear prior to his ascent. He should just bite the bullet and take whatever penalty there is. Everything else about this thread - threatening climbing in the park, or Potter's employment with Patagonia - is simply hype and spray by us, a group of people who need to spend more time climbing and less time reading about those climbing more than we are. Me included.

I need to take a Dremmel tool to a pair of ski crampons so that they fit to an older generation of Frischis, and a bench vise to widen the crampon wings so that an 80mm crampon fits an 82mm ski. We're heading out Friday morning. Is there anyone in the Bellingham area who can help me out?

Whittaker Mountaineering, next door to the Bunkhouse in Ashford, sells cannisters.

Nice work

His best moment is going to be when he moves out of the Oval Office.

Dru- If you read the link to your own post, you'll discover: "Hey, if you are in Bellingham, I am finishing up a slideshow/movie tour there on May 4th (Thursday at 7). It will be at Western University (WWU in Fairhaven/Bellingham area)I am doing a show/movie presentation on Queen Maud Land, Antarctica and a new area on the Border of Kyrgyzstan and China. The show is free, rated R, there will be live bluegrass, and a sweet raffle for the Access Fund. If you are bored, grab a sixer and come check it out. Laughter will be involved. Climbing and mentally unstable related, so what the hell. Libecki" Special thanks to my girlfriend who made me check your original post. She's always right!

I'll check tomorrow - I didn't see any mention of tickets or prices on the posters around campus. Dru-man, if tickets are needed, I'll get you one. What about Fern?

It looked like the perfect dumpster guide for climbing bums.

The Talon

Bill Simpkins has spent a lot of time up there - try PM'ing him.

A friend of mine is a glacial geologist - he helps date glacial flow rates and depths by isotope dating rock debris deposited by the glacier. He gets to go to some pretty kick ass places to do this, like Antarctica. And since his specialty is a very "hard" science, you can't sit on your ass in a lab - you have to go out and get samples. Oh, the horror. He's now a post-doc at UW. He lives in a nice house (with house-mates), drives a new-model car, and can take time off to travel, bike, or ski as he wishes. Its enviable. If you can handle academia, I'd really encourage you to pursue it..

I remember seeing an article about "unauthorized" huts and shelters in British Columbia. What are the consequences of building a shelter here in the states. I'm looking for specific, not "you'll get a ticket and a fine and in a lot of trouble". Do the consequences change from wilderness to regular forest land, fed to state, BLM to USFS to NPS? I'm not asking anyone to admit to having done it. I'm not looking for shelters or advocating. I simply want to know the consequences for breaking the rules...

Since I haven't built a one, you're probably right. But I have assembled some prefab structures that were panels of insulation sandwiched in between aluminum, and the aluminum was already coated. Could have been paint, but the stuff didn't scratch very easily. I have to say I didn't look to hard.

Huts don't need to be unpainted aluminum either, all nice and bright and shiny. There are several examples in NZ where they were finished with powder-coat or something a little more permanent than paint (I'm not fmailiar with the processes available) in blue or brown - these building blend in very well to the avalanche-protecting ridge or hill-top that they're built on.

I don't think its that easy - I'm aware of an black market for Soc Sec ID's - with that and a birth certificate its pretty easy to get a driver's license. Also, instead of Soc Sec # you can also give a student or work visa (student visa allows a limited amount of work per week, I think 20 hours). But this is just my understanding of things, and I know I can be completey messed up... OK, back to class...

I'll vote for Mathes (not Mathers, Snaileye) Crest. Two 60 meter pitches to an unforgetable neverending ridge traverse - if you stay on the knife's proper edge, you're sometimes walking along a six inch wide balance beam with a couple hundred feet beneath you! For full value, do the full ridge (that adds a half mile). Worth every penny for admission!

But by and large, they're not near any desirable climbing or skiing (the Scottish Lake huts may be an exception to this sweeping generalization, but I've never been there).

As I understand things, many illegals have forged visas, social security numbers, etc. So when they are hired, the employers are withholding taxes - but the illegal worker has no way to claim any benefits. If this is true - how do we hold the EMPLOYER accountable? If he looks at the required paperwork (birth certificate, social security card, driver's license, work visa). And its all in order, what can we expect him to do? Report suspicions? Is this right? Is it fair? (They're not the same thing)

OK, UW, that's fucking nuts. I can hear the conversation right now... In the Year of Our Lord 1700, Slaver: Look, I'm going to put this collar around your neck, put you on a boat where 10-30% of you are going to die, and send you to the United States. You and your descendents will spend the next 170 years treated as property, expected to work until you die for no benefits. Then they'll be expected to work another 100 years for minimal benefits and constant segregation from the priveleges that other people have. Finally some laws will get passed prohibiting that, but you'll spend at least 50 years fighting to get them enforced. Slave: Well, at least I won't be in Africa! Why couldn't we all be so...lucky?