billcoe

Looks amazing! Thanks for sharing.

Oh shite, I just swapped East/West. Sorry. You have it right.

Walk down the road to the west till the guardrail starts, count @ 10 guardrail uprights and step over the guardrail into the trail. First 9 feet are a little steep, then it's all old man gentle the rest of the way, better than the east side. Adam is down there tuning up for his Europee-n vacation (previews available here) with Amy coming up soon wherein they will rent a mini-van and in a youthful lovefest of joy and happiness hit all the major climbing areas of Europe like two crazed rabbits in love. Woot!

The large Metolius Supercam goes from 2.62 - 4.67”. http://www.e-omc.com/catalog/products/1294/Metolius-Supercam.html?avad=1768_c1c00a45 What size range did the old Camelots go to? The old #5 Wild Country friends went from 84-138mm.

LOL, I use to have nothing - saved it all for the kids. Then one day I woke up and thought "Fuck them", let them go work for it too:-) Fortunately I said it nicely because guess who's going to be hooking me up with the pro deals now:-) HMMMMMM, Shiney gear, HMMMM< It's a good point in the article.

FACT: I SHOULD HAVE STOPPED AT: You loaned out a #9? Wow! Ben has Plaidmans #4 Big Bro too, so that's probably enough boat anchors to wear around the neck:-) Ivan - I'll send you guys Adams contact info. He's in the valley and can step up and in if you need him due to foot repair issues. He'd love to join the hunt if it presents itself.

Kenny is pissed. Joesph is an asshole. Yer gonna die. The end. When do you leave for the valley?

SUCKED BACK IN. FACT: KENNY THE HATE TRANE IS GOING THE WRONG DERECTION BRAH! Kenny. If I have something to say to someone I try and say it to their face. I've had folks tell me I'm an asshole to my face cause of this bad habit of mine and I'm fine with that. So don’t you talk for Jim or for me on the Internet. Jim has something to say he can say it his own damn self. Of course there are exceptions to that like right now cause I won't be seeing you for a while. I don't and won't speak for Jim, Tim, Kevin or anyone so I'm not going to get trolled into JH's thing about them or what they are doing like his post above. Jim, Tim, You and everyfucking one else can say what the fuck you want and don't need me to be a spokesperson for them. I do not recall not telling JH my thoughts when I have been face to face with him, and in this instance I can tell you that what I said above is on the money right. I don't want anyone falling off the top due to stupidity, mine or theirs. Joesph isn’t my friend but JH is right and correct in this instance. You don’t think so? JH knows how I feel about this and you don’t. So you go scrape up the next body. It’s not any fun dude. Pick up a couple of bodies and then we’ll talk, it’s a very serious matter to anyone with a dead loved one and I don’t want to look back on my words through the eyes of some survivors in that kind of an environment and see stupidity and snarkyness. I’m only speaking for me here. You and everyone else can and do what they want. Frankly Timetraveler cracks me up, but that kind of diatribe online isn’t for me. As far as this area being in the guidebook disagreement Joseph wants to start. I think we might have had that discussion face to face as well, but certainly we have already disagreed on the net about it. So what is the point of saying he’s just being a selfish prick for wanting to keep it all for himself other than just to be antagonistic? Frankly, I have cliffs I’m keeping secret too so I’d just be another lip-flapping hypocrite anyway. For myself, I believe that Jim has something down right, and it’s this: we have a duty to others. It might extend to digging out some routes, helping them learn or just being there for them if we can. Jim more than others lives this, I can’t, and it can be frustrating when you are on the way to a line you want to crank out real bad and Jim tosses out the anchor to gently, kindly and generously help some dumb ass-noob that is almost beyond help. However - it is also inspiring. I have suggested above, twice, that I hoped JH helped these noobs, cause they sounded too stupid to have helped themselves. I wasn’t there, maybe he did. Maybe he didn’t. So yeah, as you say Kenny - JH did solo a 5.9 in the dark and the cold down in Red Rocks to save some very grateful people who’d screwed the pooch. And yeah, he hiked in from the exit cause the loop road was closed being 3:30am and all. With that as a background I suspect and hope that he helped in the situation as well. Oh, in case I wasn’t clear: don’t speak for me, ever, if I want to say something I’ll say it. In fact, I just reread what I posted above and I'm fine with it.

LMAO! I was actually thinking along the lines that most of these yahoos put together don't have the brains to carry your sweaty jockstrap, but I know many of them are college trained professionals who hold otherwise skilled jobs. At least when you and I disagree on something: there is an intellectual exchange of some sort and consideration of the logic of the others viewpoint. In fact, I often read political or economic things you say carefully as they are so well thought out, logically arrived at, and then transmitted. Same certainly applies to Jayb as well. Most of the grownups seemed to have moved on around here...... Regards!

OK, I listened. Seems pretty fantastic. Looked up the full Kennedy quote they had a short blub of. He is clearly pointing out communism vs democracy and NOT anything to do with the Rothschilds (unless one were to start believing in unfounded conspiracy). So it calls into question every one of the alleged links in that vid. Here is the full Kennedy speech not taken out of context: " Address to ANPA (1961) Address before the American Newspaper Publishers Association (27 April 1961) Audio I appreciate very much your generous invitation to be here tonight. You bear heavy responsibilities these days and an article I read some time ago reminded me of how particularly heavily the burdens of present day events bear upon your profession. You may remember that in 1851 the New York Herald Tribune under the sponsorship and publishing of Horace Greeley, employed as its London correspondent an obscure journalist by the name of Karl Marx. I want to talk about our common responsibilities in the face of a common danger. The events of recent weeks may have helped to illuminate that challenge for some; but the dimensions of its threat have loomed large on the horizon for many years. Whatever our hopes may be for the future — for reducing this threat or living with it — there is no escaping either the gravity or the totality of its challenge to our survival and to our security — a challenge that confronts us in unaccustomed ways in every sphere of human activity. This deadly challenge imposes upon our society two requirements of direct concern both to the press and to the President — two requirements that may seem almost contradictory in tone, but which must be reconciled and fulfilled if we are to meet this national peril. I refer, first, to the need for a far greater public information; and, second, to the need for far greater official secrecy. The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it. Even today, there is little value in opposing the threat of a closed society by imitating its arbitrary restrictions. Even today, there is little value in insuring the survival of our nation if our traditions do not survive with it. And there is very grave danger that an announced need for increased security will be seized upon by those anxious to expand its meaning to the very limits of official censorship and concealment. That I do not intend to permit to the extent that it is in my control. And no official of my Administration, whether his rank is high or low, civilian or military, should interpret my words here tonight as an excuse to censor the news, to stifle dissent, to cover up our mistakes or to withhold from the press and the public the facts they deserve to know. Today no war has been declared — and however fierce the struggle may be, it may never be declared in the traditional fashion. Our way of life is under attack. Those who make themselves our enemy are advancing around the globe. The survival of our friends is in danger. And yet no war has been declared, no borders have been crossed by marching troops, no missiles have been fired. If the press is awaiting a declaration of war before it imposes the self-discipline of combat conditions, then I can only say that no war ever posed a greater threat to our security. If you are awaiting a finding of "clear and present danger," then I can only say that the danger has never been more clear and its presence has never been more imminent. It requires a change in outlook, a change in tactics, a change in missions — by the government, by the people, by every businessman or labor leader, and by every newspaper. For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence — on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations. Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed. It conducts the Cold War, in short, with a war-time discipline no democracy would ever hope or wish to match. Nevertheless, every democracy recognizes the necessary restraints of national security — and the question remains whether those restraints need to be more strictly observed if we are to oppose this kind of attack as well as outright invasion. It was early in the Seventeenth Century that Francis Bacon remarked on three recent inventions already transforming the world: the compass, gunpowder and the printing press. Now the links between the nations first forged by the compass have made us all citizens of the world, the hopes and threats of one becoming the hopes and threats of us all. In that one world's efforts to live together, the evolution of gunpowder to its ultimate limit has warned mankind of the terrible consequences of failure. And so it is to the printing press — to the recorder of man's deeds, the keeper of his conscience, the courier of his news — that we look for strength and assistance, confident that with your help man will be what he was born to be: free and independent." You see this one below? I'd be more worried about people who seek both power and money and want more. Rothschilds have plenty, they can cruise and not worry over it, not Peolosi, she is the type who will want to be the rich and powerful lapdog. She rallied against the Obama tax cuts for the rich before the election and then on the bill's final vote, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., did not vote at all. You think her husbands tax free Guam based company is helping to reduce the deficit or not? Whom do you think she will side with? http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/801-economy/166599-pelosis-net-worth-rises-62-percent- "Pelosi's wealth grows by 62 percent By Kevin Bogardus - 06/15/11 12:46 PM ET House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) saw her net worth rise 62 percent last year, cementing her status as one of the wealthiest members of Congress. Pelosi was worth at least $35.2 million in the 2010 calendar year, according to a financial disclosure report released Wednesday. She reported a minimum of $43.4 million in assets and about $8.2 in liabilities. For 2009, Pelosi reported a minimum net worth of $21.7 million."

We all know how close to the line it can get. 0 to 60 or 60 to 0 in a short time. Condolences to friends, family and loved ones.

Welcome back from the abyss Jim. LOL!

HELLO FELLOW BRO I HAVE ALREADY INITIATED THE TRANSLATION OF JB TO ENGLISH AND ANSWERED THIS 4 POSTS BACK I can only assume at this point that the handwaving thing is contagious and spreading?

You're welcome

OK then, FINE! I'll post this for jb to make his point, cause I believe that he's already said it in between some other personal attacks, thread deflections, handwaving and ravings. THIS IS WHAT JB WOULD SAY IF HE WAS COHERENT Click the link for charts and pictures. It's fairly well spelled out. "The Greek Myth of Profligacy The Fiscal Crisis in Greece Isn’t About Spending SOURCE: AP/Tatiana Bolari Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou announces Greece's decision to request activation of a joint euro zone-International Monetary Fund financial rescue plan. Greece is undoubtedly in dire fiscal straits, but the blame does not lie with overspending. By Michael Linden, Sabina Dewan | May 14, 2010 It’s not the spending. The Greek fiscal situation is a mess, a big dangerous mess. But they didn’t spend their way into that mess and they won’t be able to cut their way out of it. It is easy, and for conservatives certainly tempting, to blame Greece’s woes on overspending. Robert Samuelson’s recent op-ed in The Washington Post even goes so far as to claim that the Greek fiscal crisis signals the “death spiral” of the welfare state. He then tries to extrapolate lessons from the Greek crisis and apply them to the United States. The facts belie both of these claims. First of all, Greece is not the United States and the United States is certainly not Greece. Our nation boasts a fundamentally stronger and more diverse economy than Greece. And Greece has pushed its fiscal envelope much further and for much longer and now has less room to climb out of its hole without assistance from its euro zone partners. By contrast, the United States is in a far better economic state, with 3.2 percent growth in gross domestic product, a job market that is slowly but surely rebounding—with 290,000 new jobs created in April of this year—and total government debt at less than half the size of the Greek’s. Second, when Greece is properly placed in the context of its EU partners and neighbors, it becomes clear that its spending is very much in line with European norms. Where Greece actually stands out is on the revenue side. In fact, the real problem facing the Greeks is not how to reduce spending (though surely that will have to be part of the solution) but how to increase revenue collections. Before turning to the central problem facing the Greek government—its woeful lack of revenue—it is important to first cast aside the inaccurate claim that it was profligate spending that brought the Greek budget to its current state of disrepair. In 2009, government expenditures in Greece totaled 50.4 percent of GDP. While that is definitely high compared to the United States—we’re at about 38 percent of GDP, including state and local government spending—it is absolutely average among countries in the European Union. In fact, total government spending for the European Union as a whole equaled 50.7 percent of GDP, actually a bit higher than Greece. Ten of the 27 countries in the European Union spent more than Greece did in 2009, several by as much as 5 percentage points of GDP (see Figure 1). Average annual total government expenditures, as a share of GDP, 2001-2007 Greece’s location in the middle of the pack on spending is not some artifact of the massive recession. Over the past 10 years, Greece has consistently spent less, as a share of GDP, than the European Union as a whole. During the last economic cycle, from 2001 to 2007, Greek government expenditures totaled an annual average of 44.6 percent of GDP. Over the same period, the European Union as a whole spent an annual average of 46.6 percent of GDP. Germany, for example, spent an average of 46.7 percent of GDP over this period. Indeed, from 2001 to 2007, Greek average annual spending ranked precisely in the center of all EU countries, with 13 countries spending more, and 13 countries spending less. Fundamentally, the argument that the Greeks spent lavishly and licentiously ignores the simple fact that Greek spending is and has been boringly average for EU countries. There are many other European countries that spend far more than Greece does but do not find themselves facing a fiscal crisis. Consider the counterexample of Sweden. By some measures, Sweden is Europe’s biggest spender. From 2001 to 2007, total government expenditures in Sweden averaged 55.2 percent of GDP, higher than any other country in the European Union, and in 2009 Sweden spent 56.5 percent of GDP, second highest in the European Union. And yet its budget deficit last year was a mere 0.5 percent of GDP. Denmark, the only country to spend more than Sweden in 2009, ran a budget deficit of less than 3 percent of GDP. How can this be? Countries such as Sweden, Denmark, Finland, and even France spend far more than Greece does, but they pay for that spending with tax revenues. The problem is that even though Greek spending is studiously average, its tax collections are definitely not. In 2009, Greece collected just 36.9 percent of GDP in total government revenues. That was far below the overall EU total of 43.9 percent. Greece’s anemic tax collections ranked them seventh from the bottom among EU countries, with only Spain, Ireland (two countries also facing big budget predicaments), Lithuania, Latvia, Slovakia, and Romania below them (see Figure 2). This has been a longstanding problem in Greece. From 2001 to 2007, Greece consistently collected far less in revenue than a typical EU country. For the European Union as a whole, annual government revenue averaged 44.4 percent of GDP. For Greece, that average was 39.4 percent. During that period, Greece was one of only four nonformer Eastern bloc countries—out of 17 in the European Union—to generate less than 40 percent of GDP in revenue. The only other three were Spain, Ireland (these two again), and Cyprus. Consider Sweden again, with its more than 55 percent of GDP in government spending. Sweden collected an average of 56.3 percent of GDP from 2001 to 2007, a whopping 17 percentage points higher than Greek revenue collections (see Figure 3). Spending and revenue in four EU countries, as a share of GDP, 2009 The current crisis has cast a light on Greece’s shadow economy and massive illicit financial flows. There are varying estimates of the size and impact of the country’s underground economy. Some suggest that a quarter of Greece’s GDP comes from its underground economy and estimates are that Greece lost an estimated $160 billion in unrecorded transfers through its balance of payments over the last decade ending 2009. Greece is undoubtedly in dire fiscal straits, but the blame does not lie with overspending. On the contrary, Greek spending is exactly in line with what one might expect from a modern, Western member of the European Union. Its tax revenues, on the other hand, are clearly on the low end. Average spending plus below average revenues equals large, persistent deficits, and that is precisely what happened in Greece. Over the next several months and years, Greece may well be forced to cut back on some of its government services, but it will also have to find ways to bring its revenue collections up to levels more in keeping with its membership in the European Union. Pinning the blame on the spending may be easy, it may be politically convenient, and it may be satisfying, but it’s wrong. "

LMAO! Thanks! I don't have it in me.

Well, I could have asked Jon or Tim, but then I wouldn't have a way to change the header to "Farside". You win! I'm out of things to talk about and done beating this issue to death. I can't match your posting volume Kev. Dropzone is the new header I give up. Take care!

Bone is correct in the sense that Jon Stewart sent his route list into Tim and that pretty much guaranteed it would be in the book. If you go back and look, you will see that I didn't believe it was Jon or my call if it went into the book but Jim's. Jon disagreed with that:-) It all worked out though. I've been working with Tim on other stuff so I'm not "anti-book", just that I didn't think it was my decision to make for this spot. Bone, is it true that the condition was that the condition of getting Jon's list was that Tim had to print the First Ascentionists names? I think I saw something like that on CC.com earlier but don't remember if that is correct.

Ditto what Timetraveler says, there's like 3 of them, so check that you have the correct one. You can also get USDA topos to carry on your person at REI, and check this shizz for cubical dreamin. http://mapper.acme.com/

Your best post ever Pat. You got pictures of what the heck you're talking about? This is "clean" oil we are talkin about right?

LOL, I'm sure that in his mind all we need to do to make it right is spend a few trillion more here on stimulus (after all, those rich bastards have unlimited money) and create another million minimum wage jobs at McDonalds and a few temporary higher paying construction project jobs. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100619052039AAyqfD6 Part of his tired "government knows whats best" for you mantra. Better to head into an off-topic rant than confront the belief anything needs to be done anytime soon. We'll just keep spending like an out of control sailor on a drunken binge who just cashed his paycheck and leave the debt for the lil children to take care of.

Helium cams? It looks like I'll be able to pro deal them- but I most likely won't do it till the end of summer or so. I will say that Mikey nailed his earlier complaints about the DMM Cams right on the head. Especially the extendable slings. So first person to see some WC, post up. I'm drooling, but really don't need more gear as you know:-)

FACT: THE HATE TRANE IS GOING THE WRONG DERECTION BRAH Seriously, thanks for putting the warning out there. It's the right thing to do and I should have started with that. You might consider that folks are trying to make light hearted jokes, and not actually attacking you and trying to give you actual grief up thread:-) I went to put it on Mt Project yesterday and saw you had that covered already -thanks for that as well. I also (re)saw that Adam had seriously condensed the info and remembered that it was due to Kevbone calling him elitist. LOL! I suspect that this oversight of warning was my bad, as it was most likely a carry over from my earlier guidebook/route list wherein Jim had insisted that we have a statement in there about something to the effect that the topropes were all meant to be done left alone (unbolted) and TR after getting to the tops of the nearby lead climbs. He wanted the use of bolts minimized so that folks had the chance to grow as climbers and learn how to place gear....and no one forsaw this. Again, no one would want some beginner to do themselves in, and stupidity isn't really a laughing matter either, hopefully you steered them right and they learned something. (ie, learned to trust what their own eyes are telling them) Say hi to MikeR for me Ivan. Since Chad and I did his line, I've been back a couple of times this year and also didn't see anyone. Rapped and thoroughly cleaned and toproped Freak Freely and also solo led and cleaned (somewhat) Child Abuse. As Bryan suggested and Tim intimates at the start of the description in the book, it's a more dangerous place, a few bolts wouldn't hurt. Last time I was there the pins were still in Sweet Fucker. I had gone back a second time to put in that 2nd pin in so as to make it a better lead with less groundfall potential. If the pins won't be staying cause they are probably on someones rack now, there should be bolts put in where needed. Bryan had already suggested a bolt or 2 in Boo Coup and I'd said fine. (Didn't see that happen yet, and apologize again if he's a tad gunshy about running out there to do it) But I should mention what I said to him as well, if you are going to put some in just make sure to stick them in the right place and correctly is all Ivan. I concur that the Kiddy Litter spot will be nice for the munchkins once it's clean. I expect, and hope, to see you, Benny and Evanson there with the whole daycare crew at some point:-) That spot is an easy place to get a toprope on from the top and an exception to the warning. Maybe a good spot for those beginners as well. FACT: HEEL UP BRAH!

It looks fine to me.

Sale is on now and stuff is going fast!