billcoe

Nor did Joe Simson and Simon Yates eh Fox? Karibro, read this. New to climbing what do I do click here. Good luck, many of us who started before schols, have some real near death ugly but interesting experinces. Better to learn and practice safetly eh?

You make a strong case fo doing nothing G. You work for the government don't you?

My thoughts exactly. Knowledge is the very most powerful thing you can have. Everything else is secondary. Without knowledge, even if you'd have had an ice axe you could have had the pick pluck your eye out. Then your ankle and your eye would be hurting.

Great pic Bob. Now about all this: Yup, kind of makes me remember my first beer too.

Fuck, where did my hair go? And I'm fat. Sighhhhhhh...........

The 3rd Rail, click on this link: OK, it was last July. Old People.

And be careful too! But have fun. God I must sound so old.

Sooooooooooo, was he asking for nekked pictures and you thought he was kidding? _____________________________________________________ Cindy, TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS! Godamnit, I don't want to hear .............(end of rant)

Must be stacking several together?

_____________________________________________________________________ Rates: 1 hour- 300 Euro 2 hours-550 Euro 3 hours-750 Euro 3 hours dinner date - 400 Euro For more hours, dinner dates, overnights, week-ends, business trips, call me for info or use the contact form. _____________________________________________________________________ A Euro is more than a buck now, so $300 = @ $ 380 Euros.

Ditto, massive traveling.

welcome

I'm just hoping I answered the question a bit.

_______________________________________________________________________ Does anybody think showing up, ignoring the question posed, then just directly attacking a person is helping or not? I think both Kevin and Andrew have made great strides in both posting interesting information and in humor (as evidenced in the quote above!) since they started posting on CC.com (Andrew origonally as FlyingPig). Kevin- for instance, alone, has posted more interesting rock climbing photos than all of you cranky, winter-bound and can't get out posters combined in the last month. The pic of Andrew (Pink alone in the rock climbing forum) soloing, by itself, was about as good as it gets. Kevin: 2 issues re: guidebook. When I was shown the area you mention (back in the dark ages) I was sworn to secrecy. Maybe you were not. My own climbing partner did not hear of it until he read the brief blurb about it ( later removed in the 2nd addition) in the guidebook. Nor did my wife hear of it. I rarely swear to secrecy, but when I do, you will have to drill my teeth without Novocain to get the info. But of course, then I will give you whatever you wish, just like Dustin Hoffman did in Running Man when the Nazi drilled his! Maybe it was different for you. 2nd – Trying to answer the question. Historically, P, PG, R and X ratings showed up way late to the party. For many years, the grades given were the hardest move, and also overall length of a route. So a Grade IV 5.9, reflected 2 things, IV indicated the length and commitment, (4 =all day) and 5.9, the Yosemite scale difficulty rating of the hardest move on the route. A grade V (5) meant 2 days, Grade 6 multiple days. You can head to the Idaho thread to see this kind of discussion on Baron Tower. I.e. - was it a grade 3 or 4? Deuce (John Middendorf) later proposed a Grade 7, like some extremely long and difficult type of the stuff somebody like Brad Jarrod (you run into him at Jimmy O's ?) might crank in Baffin Island or some other, bigger than El Cap kind of thing –maybe somebody doing a new route up Trango Tower for instance. Climbing at 19,000 feet elevation and 7000 feet of vertical in a remote location, why should it be a grade 6, like most El Cap routes, which are @ a 45 min from your car, except for the West Face route say, and then “only” 3000 of beautiful granite. Grades 1 (easiest) –6 (longest most commiting) are pretty much used. Please excuse the extra elaboration, I'm drinking wine now. Anyway, people climbing at Joshua Tree or Smith, really didn’t have a need to say “Oh, that s a Grade 1, 5.8, or that’s a Grade 2 5.8”. So you will rarely hear those numbers bandied about. Your ar a friggan crag and can see the top of the climbs well within reach. People just say it’s a 5.8 and drop the grade. Something longer like Royal Arches still often gets defined with the Grade (Grade 3, most of a day). Later, people were scratching their heads and saying crap like, “Damn dude, did you ever do Angel Wing Buttress at Smith?” “Uhhh, no, how hard is it dude?” “Only 5.8, but man, there’s maybe 2 pieces of pro on the whole damn thing and if you fly, you might die.” “Hey, no shit dude?”. “Yup, only 5.8, it’s a great route, great rock, great location, great moves, but you’d better have your friggan lead head on and feel solid on 5.9 or 10a you’ll pancake hard if you auger in”. So contrast it with say: Revelations also at Smith, , a well bolted 5.9. Somebody who can hang on Revelations, or barely make it up it (but safely), would be a potential candidate for a litter carryout if they walked over and did an EASIER route. The P, PG, R and X were an attempt to codify that part of a routes characteristics. It is different than how long the route is, or how hard the route is. It gives some additional warning to someone looking at a topo for something like Snake Dike thinking that hey, it’s 5.4 with a spot of 5.7. Moving along: Same dudes, same route, same discussion: “Hey – how good is the route?” “Oh man, it’s friggan A-1 Awesome!” “Yeah?” “Yup, unfrigganbelivable”. “No Sh*t?” “Year godd*ammit, but don’t fall or ya die”. “Hmmmm, OK then - well, how good is that compared to Revalaions then? Rate it on a scale from 1-10 or 1-5 stars. “ Ok,it’s a 3 star route”. “Well, how good is Revalations?” “Maybe 4 stars”. Later this gets summed up in a guidebook to hit the high points that anyone needs to be safe: saying that it’s a Grade 1 (short), 5.8 (hardest move), R or X (serious - fall you die), 3 star (awesome route, solid rock, great location, views of Mt Jefferson, solid rock, great route). This is a fictional comparison of routes to show how this shook out: I don’t want to debate routes, cause Angel Flight kind of sucks and might only be a 1 or 2 star route. I’ve only done it once and suspect that the loose holds have pretty much been yanked off by now. Anyway, that’s how it is in my mind.

Thanks JH: Supersafe may be the best rope out there. Lotta dough though. Here's another one for us tightwads: $100 climbing rope click here New England Equinox 10.2mm x 60m Non-Dry Rope Reduced Price: $99.93 Item 735478 * Originally: $139.00 You Save: 28%

Free rope offer..... - not All this complaining about the high rope prices. Bentgate just sent me this offer: $112 for a 10.2 x 60mm Mammut that comes with a STD rope sack. Not sure if that means Sexually Transmitted Disease or not. But I know this, I bought this rope last year at an REI sale for $105 (including the rope bag/tarp), and with the Euro heading up, $112 is still damned good. Comes with a great middle mark and a rope sac for that price, so sac up and buy one (the bag is too small and runs too tight IMO, but since it's essentially free...how can you complain?). You have till Jan 15th or until they run out. BC

Spy coins discovered The civil libertarian thread and this popped up at the same time. Part of it says: "In a U.S. government warning high on the creepiness scale, the Defense Department cautioned its American contractors over what it described as a new espionage threat: Canadian coins with tiny radio frequency transmitters hidden inside. The government said the mysterious coins were found planted on U.S. contractors with classified security clearances on at least three separate occasions between October 2005 and January 2006 as the contractors traveled through Canada. Intelligence and technology experts said such transmitters, if they exist, could be used to surreptitiously track the movements of people carrying the spy coins. The U.S. report doesn't suggest who might be tracking American defense contractors or why. It also doesn't describe how the Pentagon discovered the ruse, how the transmitters might function or even which Canadian currency contained them. Further details were secret, according to the U.S. Defense Security Service, which issued the warning to the Pentagon's classified contractors. The government insists the incidents happened, and the risk was genuine. "What's in the report is true," said Martha Deutscher, a spokeswoman for the security service. "This is indeed a sanitized version, which leaves a lot of questions." Top suspects, according to outside experts: China, Russia or even France — all said to actively run espionage operations inside Canada with enough sophistication to produce such technology. The Canadian Security Intelligence Service said it knew nothing about the coins." Cue the erie music.

Stretching information Some shizzel here I didn't know about. Example follows: Passive Stretching * Static Stretching: (next section) * Active Stretching: (previous section) * Types of Stretching: (beginning of chapter) Passive stretching is also referred to as relaxed stretching, and as static-passive stretching. A passive stretch is one where you assume a position and hold it with some other part of your body, or with the assistance of a partner or some other apparatus. For example, bringing your leg up high and then holding it there with your hand. The splits is an example of a passive stretch (in this case the floor is the "apparatus" that you use to maintain your extended position). Slow, relaxed stretching is useful in relieving spasms in muscles that are healing after an injury. Obviously, you should check with your doctor first to see if it is okay to attempt to stretch the injured muscles (see section Pain and Discomfort). Relaxed stretching is also very good for "cooling down" after a workout and helps reduce post-workout muscle fatigue, and soreness. See section Cooling Down. Isometric Stretching * PNF Stretching: (next section) * Static Stretching: (previous section) * Types of Stretching: (beginning of chapter) Isometric stretching is a type of static stretching (meaning it does not use motion) which involves the resistance of muscle groups through isometric contractions (tensing) of the stretched muscles (see section Types of Muscle Contractions). The use of isometric stretching is one of the fastest ways to develop increased static-passive flexibility and is much more effective than either passive stretching or active stretching alone. Isometric stretches also help to develop strength in the "tensed" muscles (which helps to develop static-active flexibility), and seems to decrease the amount of pain usually associated with stretching. The most common ways to provide the needed resistance for an isometric stretch are to apply resistance manually to one's own limbs, to have a partner apply the resistance, or to use an apparatus such as a wall (or the floor) to provide resistance. An example of manual resistance would be holding onto the ball of your foot to keep it from flexing while you are using the muscles of your calf to try and straighten your instep so that the toes are pointed. An example of using a partner to provide resistance would be having a partner hold your leg up high (and keep it there) while you attempt to force your leg back down to the ground. An example of using the wall to provide resistance would be the well known "push-the-wall" calf-stretch where you are actively attempting to move the wall (even though you know you can't). Isometric stretching is not recommended for children and adolescents whose bones are still growing. These people are usually already flexible enough that the strong stretches produced by the isometric contraction have a much higher risk of damaging tendons and connective tissue. Kurz strongly recommends preceding any isometric stretch of a muscle with dynamic strength training for the muscle to be stretched. A full session of isometric stretching makes a lot of demands on the muscles being stretched and should not be performed more than once per day for a given group of muscles (ideally, no more than once every 36 hours). The proper way to perform an isometric stretch is as follows: 1. Assume the position of a passive stretch for the desired muscle. 2. Next, tense the stretched muscle for 7-15 seconds (resisting against some force that will not move, like the floor or a partner). 3. Finally, relax the muscle for at least 20 seconds. Some people seem to recommend holding the isometric contraction for longer than 15 seconds, but according to SynerStretch (the videotape), research has shown that this is not necessary. So you might as well make your stretching routine less time consuming. * How Isometric Stretching Works How Isometric Stretching Works * Isometric Stretching: (beginning of section) Recall from our previous discussion (see section How Muscles Contract) that there is no such thing as a partially contracted muscle fiber: when a muscle is contracted, some of the fibers contract and some remain at rest (more fibers are recruited as the load on the muscle increases). Similarly, when a muscle is stretched, some of the fibers are elongated and some remain at rest (see section What Happens When You Stretch). During an isometric contraction, some of the resting fibers are being pulled upon from both ends by the muscles that are contracting. The result is that some of those resting fibers stretch! Normally, the handful of fibers that stretch during an isometric contraction are not very significant. The true effectiveness of the isometric contraction occurs when a muscle that is already in a stretched position is subjected to an isometric contraction. In this case, some of the muscle fibers are already stretched before the contraction, and, if held long enough, the initial passive stretch overcomes the stretch reflex (see section The Stretch Reflex) and triggers the lengthening reaction (see section The Lengthening Reaction), inhibiting the stretched fibers from contracting. At this point, according to SynerStretch, when you isometrically contracted, some resting fibers would contract and some resting fibers would stretch. Furthermore, many of the fibers already stretching may be prevented from contracting by the inverse myotatic reflex (the lengthening reaction) and would stretch even more. When the isometric contraction is completed, the contracting fibers return to their resting length but the stretched fibers would remember their stretched length and (for a period of time) retain the ability to elongate past their previous limit. This enables the entire muscle to stretch beyonds its initial maximum and results in increased flexibility. The reason that the stretched fibers develop and retain the ability to stretch beyond their normal limit during an isometric stretch has to do with the muscle spindles (see section Proprioceptors): The signal which tells the muscle to contract voluntarily, also tells the muscle spindle's (intrafusal) muscle fibers to shorten, increasing sensitivity of the stretch reflex. This mechanism normally maintains the sensitivity of the muscle spindle as the muscle shortens during contraction. This allows the muscle spindles to habituate (become accustomed) to an even further-lengthened position. PNF Stretching * Isometric Stretching: (previous section) * Types of Stretching: (beginning of chapter) PNF stretching is currently the fastest and most effective way known to increase static-passive flexibility. PNF is an acronym for proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation. It is not really a type of stretching but is a technique of combining passive stretching (see section Passive Stretching) and isometric stretching (see section Isometric Stretching) in order to achieve maximum static flexibility. Actually, the term PNF stretching is itself a misnomer. PNF was initially developed as a method of rehabilitating stroke victims. PNF refers to any of several post-isometric relaxation stretching techniques in which a muscle group is passively stretched, then contracts isometrically against resistance while in the stretched position, and then is passively stretched again through the resulting increased range of motion. PNF stretching usually employs the use of a partner to provide resistance against the isometric contraction and then later to passively take the joint through its increased range of motion. It may be performed, however, without a partner, although it is usually more effective with a partner's assistance. Most PNF stretching techniques employ isometric agonist contraction/relaxation where the stretched muscles are contracted isometrically and then relaxed. Some PNF techniques also employ isometric antagonist contraction where the antagonists of the stretched muscles are contracted. In all cases, it is important to note that the stretched muscle should be rested (and relaxed) for at least 20 seconds before performing another PNF technique. The most common PNF stretching techniques are: the hold-relax This technique is also called the contract-relax. After assuming an initial passive stretch, the muscle being stretched is isometrically contracted for 7-15 seconds, after which the muscle is briefly relaxed for 2-3 seconds, and then immediately subjected to a passive stretch which stretches the muscle even further than the initial passive stretch. This final passive stretch is held for 10-15 seconds. The muscle is then relaxed for 20 seconds before performing another PNF technique. the hold-relax-contract This technique is also called the contract-relax-contract, and the contract-relax-antagonist-contract (or CRAC). It involves performing two isometric contractions: first of the agonists, then, of the antagonists. The first part is similar to the hold-relax where, after assuming an initial passive stretch, the stretched muscle is isometrically contracted for 7-15 seconds. Then the muscle is relaxed while its antagonist immediately performs an isometric contraction that is held for 7-15 seconds. The muscles are then relaxed for 20 seconds before performing another PNF technique. the hold-relax-swing This technique (and a similar technique called the hold-relax-bounce) actually involves the use of dynamic or ballistic stretches in conjunction with static and isometric stretches. It is very risky, and is successfully used only by the most advanced of athletes and dancers that have managed to achieve a high level of control over their muscle stretch reflex (see section The Stretch Reflex). It is similar to the hold-relax technique except that a dynamic or ballistic stretch is employed in place of the final passive stretch. Notice that in the hold-relax-contract, there is no final passive stretch. It is replaced by the antagonist-contraction which, via reciprocal inhibition (see section Reciprocal Inhibition), serves to relax and further stretch the muscle that was subjected to the initial passive stretch. Because there is no final passive stretch, this PNF technique is considered one of the safest PNF techniques to perform (it is less likely to result in torn muscle tissue). Some people like to make the technique even more intense by adding the final passive stretch after the second isometric contraction. Although this can result in greater flexibility gains, it also increases the likelihood of injury. Even more risky are dynamic and ballistic PNF stretching techniques like the hold-relax-swing, and the hold-relax-bounce. If you are not a professional athlete or dancer, you probably have no business attempting either of these techniques (the likelihood of injury is just too great). Even professionals should not attempt these techniques without the guidance of a professional coach or training advisor. These two techniques have the greatest potential for rapid flexibility gains, but only when performed by people who have a sufficiently high level of control of the stretch reflex in the muscles that are being stretched. Like isometric stretching (see section Isometric Stretching), PNF stretching is also not recommended for children and people whose bones are still growing (for the same reasons. Also like isometric stretching, PNF stretching helps strengthen the muscles that are contracted and therefore is good for increasing active flexibility as well as passive flexibility. Furthermore, as with isometric stretching, PNF stretching is very strenuous and should be performed for a given muscle group no more than once per day (ideally, no more than once per 36 hour period). The initial recommended procedure for PNF stretching is to perform the desired PNF technique 3-5 times for a given muscle group (resting 20 seconds between each repetition). However, HFLTA cites a 1987 study whose results suggest that performing 3-5 repetitions of a PNF technique for a given muscle group is not necessarily any more effective than performing the technique only once. As a result, in order to decrease the amount of time taken up by your stretching routine (without decreasing its effectiveness), HFLTA recommends performing only one PNF technique per muscle group stretched in a given stretching session. * How PNF Stretching Works How PNF Stretching Works * PNF Stretching: (beginning of section) Remember that during an isometric stretch, when the muscle performing the isometric contraction is relaxed, it retains its ability to stretch beyond its initial maximum length (see section How Isometric Stretching Works). Well, PNF tries to take immediate advantage of this increased range of motion by immediately subjecting the contracted muscle to a passive stretch. The isometric contraction of the stretched muscle accomplishes several things: 1. As explained previously (see section How Isometric Stretching Works), it helps to train the stretch receptors of the muscle spindle to immediately accommodate a greater muscle length. 2. The intense muscle contraction, and the fact that it is maintained for a period of time, serves to fatigue many of the fast-twitch fibers of the contracting muscles (see section Fast and Slow Muscle Fibers). This makes it harder for the fatigued muscle fibers to contract in resistance to a subsequent stretch (see section The Stretch Reflex). 3. The tension generated by the contraction activates the golgi tendon organ (see section Proprioceptors), which inhibits contraction of the muscle via the lengthening reaction (see section The Lengthening Reaction). Voluntary contraction during a stretch increases tension on the muscle, activating the golgi tendon organs more than the stretch alone. So, when the voluntary contraction is stopped, the muscle is even more inhibited from contracting against a subsequent stretch. PNF stretching techniques take advantage of the sudden "vulnerability" of the muscle and its increased range of motion by using the period of time immediately following the isometric contraction to train the stretch receptors to get used to this new, increased, range of muscle length. This is what the final passive (or in some cases, dynamic) stretch accomplishes."

A face lift and tummy tuck will get you more action. ________________________________________________________________ oh, sorry, couldn't resist. Caveat, I'm not a doctor, do not play one on TV, yet I did tryout for a play once where I would be playing across from an actor playing a Doctor. You are welcome. Ice and rest and see what happens Chode, you knew there was a reason to wait for Layton, this is it. BTW - Good luck with it.

Dudes - did ya know you can surf porn up at MEADOWS NOW! I'm ON THEIR COMPUTER RIGHT NOW AND THE POWDER OUTSIDE RULES!! My legs are pwned right now and I'm waiting for my son. Thought I'd look at the computer in the common area and guess what? Here I am! If you are thinking of blowing off work to get some mountain time in, it looks like tomorrow is THE day!

Thanks for sharing Ian! Stay in touch with pics and reminders as you do new things and post them on your site so we all don't forget. Thanks

Treo 750 (available today) X touchscreen X plays Mp3s X Cell phone X Calender X Organizer notes availability X Record your voice or your own farts X Record your buddies calls X Camera X Syncronises with Microsoft Outlook and your computer ______________________________________________________ iphone OMG OMG OMG an Apple branded phone OMG!! (Announced today - available someday) X touchscreen X plays Mp3s X Cell phone NO Calender NO Organizer notes availability NO Record your voice or your own farts NO Record your buddies calls X Camera NO Syncronises with Microsoft Outlook and your computer Microwho? AWEFRIGGANSOME!

Damn, thats tuff. You been eating dog food again? That will stop ya up for sure after a couple of days. The dry stuff.

http://www.geartrade.com Gearwhores.com link Saw this ad on Steep and Cheap which caters to us gear whores. Very few things are currently listed, although I expect that will change fast. Do any of you have any experiences with it yet? I've put this on Supertopo and RC.com as well and no bites yet. Regards: Bill

Pink is nicer than flyingpig.