billcoe

E-Bay?

Damn, what did you do to Kevbone? Seriously, congratulations dude! Sorry to hear that your drill broke. You have a trip report with pics?

Well thats gona suk fer some of us. Fer damn sure......... Wish I was tall.

I got some of the Klean Kanteens recently, and enjoy the fact that the water still tastes good 5 days later. Probably just something else that you will learn is killing you 5 years from now....... They're costly, but one of CC.coms sponsors has them on sale right now cheaper than elsewhere and they're not ungodly expensive: OMC link They should last much longer than plastic.

Good call on staying on the east side. All the climbing and skiing is out that way (that is, if you don't head north to Washington Pass or Leavenworth). Where in Milwaukie Peter (Milwaukie has some big distances depending on which side you're on) ? Maybe we can give some specific recommendations. and what Joseph said: ring us when you get in and we'll pull some ligaments!

Nice. The other one that I get screwed on is OBO. As in $300 OBO. Which only means "Or Best Offer".

With the brown stuff do you look like Eddie Murphy?

Short version for Pope. (thinking of your needs here, see, I did read your post)

bill, i agree with most everything you've been saying which is why i stand to correct this one statement. while it's generally true that people were rapping in exclusively and pre-inspecting routes and equipping fixed pro; it is not true across the board. there was plenty of debate on the overuse and abuse of bolts... i'm not going to list my resume, but i will say: that's *generally* ( i rap bolted 1 route ) not my history out there and i was very vocal in opposition of rap bolting the crap out of this crag. i love that you're out finding gear routes - there is still plenty more. keep the adventure alive bill; you the man. I have nothing but respect for you Mark, and meant no critisim of you. In fact, I'm not even criticizing rap bolting or rapping down to clean the routes out there. The second route I tried, Jim kept asking, "don't you want to go rap it and knock that loose stuff off?" He asked me at least 3-4 times and everytime I said, "Nahh, more exciting this way". We'd seen a massive amount of loose stuff on it, mostly 1/2 way up. I thought I'd get up there and see if could find a place to plug some gear and if I could then just dance around it to the right. Barely made it @ 20 feet up, not even close to the obvious massive killer loose crap above, and the minor, near-overlooked, loose stack of blocks my feet were on decided that was the time they would co-operate with gravity and they plunged with me on it. The left arm was cranked in good and it tried to stay, but my body wasn't willing. The resolution of that conflict left blood everywhere when both my leg impaled a branch as I dropped and the arm scraped deep (but held) too. Quietly we called it a day. Came back and cleaned it on rap. I ain't too proud. My point, I think the debates like you had during that time about these issues were positive. I just want Pope and Dawg to lighten up a bit as this issue is so situational. There are some cliffs out there (as you of all folks know, I'm wondering how many FAs of those did you do last year anyway? I'll bet the count is over 80-100) that are crack after crack after crack. Conversely, there are crags with NO cracks, none. Dawg seems to think bolts in there for any reason are inappropriate. The question is, in that situation, is rappel bolting OK or not? It is done in many places. Not Yosemite, Not Tuolme and Not many other places. However, for some crags it may be a better thing. Somehow, for these guys, it's OK to build a massive new concrete bridge for a boat ramp and pave all over hell and back so that boating people can intermingle and use a park. Not a peep from them. It's OK to bulldoze a new rest area or campground for the campers. Not a peep. It's Ok, to build bathrooms and roads for that user base. Not a peep. But climbers do not get this respect from them. It pisses me off. F*ing hypocrites. Maybe I was playing too hard on the new drill thing, but I think it's a good name for a drill. Anyway, now I have to rap bolt something, anything, take some pics and name it "Squeezin' the Dawg" just to finish that idea and piss these guys off. I've never rap-bolted a line before too, so it will be steppin' off step a bit for me. BTW, the quote above was taken from the preface of one of Dawgs books. It's a very well done/well written book too. The guy's really not a total dunce, he just plays one on the internet. I've loaned it to Jimmy O and he's got it right now. The moral of the story is: I guess Dawg can write the stuff but cannot live it. Meantime, poor letsroll. He just wanted to do a lil trail work and look at where this went! At least they weren't giving him crap about trail maintenance. Maybe next time he'll offer to cure cancer instead, it would be interesting to chart where that thread goes off course on the road to hell:-) Warm regards Mark

Which is.....what? ....Fumunda cheese? OK, it's Fumunda cheese, there. Are you happy?

BTW, I don't disagree that we should exercise good judgment in our use of all technology in climbing. Pics of "Squeezing the Dawg" may demonstrate otherwise. I will admit I have not drawn a clear line in the sand myself and that line is changing. At this area here, I put up some early ground up gear only lines 25 or so years ago. It was dangerous and stupid and the routes have been lost to the sands of time and my bad memory. The place languished until some of these pups showed up and on rappel, cleaned it off, and put in bolts... where or if needed. The effect is great from a climbing viewpoint with lost of variety, predominatly mixed gear and bolt lines, with some pure gear only lines and some pure bolt only lines as well. Unfortunately this has drawn crowds, which usually causes bureaucrats to want to "manage" them. But the place IMO, despite the crowds, is better now than when it was first tripped over, and I was there for that too.

In the spririt of camaraderie and in an effort to get the discussion back to rockclimbing and not what a bunch of Elmer Gantry F*uking loudmouth hypocrites some of you jackasses are: I have decided not to name the first rap bolted line I have scoped out "Squeeze job" or "Dawging it" (after Raindawg) after all. No, when the new big-assed Bosch rotohammer which I've nicknamed "the Dawg" arrives, the first route "The Dawg" hammers the holy hell out of and permanently scars will be named.............hold............drum roll........... hold...."Squeezing the Dawg". A more interesting name no doubt not the least of which is due to the sly sexually suggestive undertones in addition to the allegorical and alternative uses of that illiteration. Interestingly enough and in a strange twist of twisted fate, this potential line lays smack in between the 2 pure lines which are sandwiched between bolted lines which I fa'ed last June (in this area being discussed on this thread) with NO BOLTS AT ALL, a full 2 months after some of the last group of new route putteruppers declared this area to be finished and totally climbed out. I'll bring pictures. Prepare your teeth for the gnashing they will undoubtedly be engaged in. You've been warned. Meantime, while you wait for this event to occur, would you just lighten up fer christsakes? Ta ta Bill

Here's the quote in question: "Read a little history and you will find that since rock climbing emerged as a sport apart from mountain climbing there has been a general trend where each successive generation's improvements are criticized by the prior. Roped belaying was decried by some in the early 20th century, pitons in the 20's, aid climbing in the 50's, and even cams were said by some to be cheating when they came out in the '70's." Here's what you did, MattP, which I think does illuminate your "take" on modern bolting practices (and if this doesn't do it, remember that only the uninformed novices and nonclimbing land managers are unaware of your activities that have contributed to the problem). In the italicized paragraph above, you entered into a discussion on bolting and brought up this supposed historical criticism of "improvements" in rock climbing, as if to put into historical perspective the current criticism of excessive bolt application. Clever subtext to readership: today's bolting critics are just afraid of anything new and their rants can be dismissed since they are clearly taking their place in history as a generation of nonadaptive, xenophobic fossils. By comparing bolting opponents to such "historical" critics of equipment improvements, you are necessarily comparing bolts to what have been considered legitimate improvements in climbing technology. Also, it is not my intention to stir the pot. Not everybody vocally in opposition to your views is merely trying to create a disturbance. Furthermore I have never advocated a no-bolt approach to rock climbing, although it would be an improvement on the current state of the sport. I have heard Don advocate no bolts, and you are very close to it. So lets step back and get the historical perspective. Short synopsis: Royal Robbins was one of the earliest who postulated that with technology, humans could theoretically go anywhere. Since we climbed for the adventure, it only made sense for us to arbitrarily draw a line in the sand "for ourselves" on technology's use so as to maintain that spirit of adventure. Somehow that has gotten twisted now by some jackasses to mean that use of bolts should be illegal. Frankly, I climb at 2 parks occasionally. Beacon Rock State Park and Smith Rocks State Park. Using your thinking, they should not be putting in pavement as that permanently leaves scars in the land in a major way. Nevermind that people who want to just drive to the park to have a picnic will all get screwed. They should not put in water spigots LIKE THEY BOTH HAVE as the construction to do so permanently scars the land in a major way. Fu*k thirsty people, let them get water at their homes eh? They should not put in campsites LIKE THEY BOTH HAVE as the construction to do so permanently scars the land in a major way. Fu*k the campers eh? They should not put in trails LIKE THEY BOTH HAVE as the construction to do so permanently scars the land in a major way. Both places have hammered and pounded the crap out of the rock to make trails, in a major way. Of course that screws the hikers. Nevermind that you can hardly see the bolts they are so small. Just another user group you want to get the shaft. As far as that goes, by your thinking, roads should not be in place at all. Even the non-paved logging roads to your lil out of the way crags tear the holy hell out of the land. Well, when you stop living in a house or using wood in any way, or stop driving to your favorite climbing spot on that major pavement that permanently scarred and tore the holy hell out of the land, maybe we can talk about this. Until then you're just another loudmouth hypocrite.

I grunt every morning - it works my core.

Do Dawg and Pope know about this affront to the environment?

Another engineer (aerospace working for a large NW company) And isn't it ironic that white collar engineer/science/etc. types are interested in climbing whilst spending nearly their entire careers sitting on their butts... screw sales. I do know some folks who work for a living that don't sit in front of a computer and so cannot answer this question. People who are answering this tend to have computers. And be white collar at a desk.

Mfg part specific: but no, check link #3. Some of these can be installed and achieve full strength during wet conditions.

Concur Mark: I too find myself agreeing with Pope and Dwayner (Dawg) - but they see the world as too black and white. Dawg would chop every bolt at this place, for instance, which is crazy shit and his attitude makes me mental sometimes. If they were showing up on this site with a climbing TR or picture occasional it would be more bearable, but alas, all they can seem to do is interject the same sad dig ....and often in the strangest of places or oddest of times. Link to the final word on bolting For instance: here is something Dawg wrote which I agree with. "The people who object most strongly to anything, I have found, are those who believe that there is only one way of thinking, and that way is their own." It is true in this case. After all, you can see the plethora of natural pro available in this rock. But only a single bolt, those rapers of the environment, climbers, put in. Come down and do the 2nd ascent Don. I'll yank the bolt I'm clipped before you go vertical for the next 100', and you'll be a pitch up from here, which this pic shows, if you want it. I'm serious. But don't drive on a road to get here, cause that's a rape of the environment and a trashing of the publics right for the land to be left in it's natural state. After all, it's a big friggan swath that the road will take and f* up and thats our land. So start walking buddy boy. It's your lead:

kLEAN kANTEEN IS FAILY WIDE, NOT ENOUGHT TO COOK ON.

Does anybody have any extensive experience or knowledge with the use of epoxy and U-Bolts for climbing? Other than this stuff: Link 1 -Austrailia sandstone bolting thesis (most academic) Link 2 -Safer cliffs.org Link 3 - epoxy data Link 4 -Greek limestone Bueller bolt mods Link 5 - Soft Sandstone Rock Anchor Testing at Swinburne SA Link 6 - Safeclimbing.org adhesives Link 7 -Safe climbing.org Link 8- Red River gorge Sandstone Please post clown pics in spray, please post real info here.

He bought one!

Ohhh, what is that noise? Oh look boyz and girls, its Uncle Bills E-mail program going off. Why it looks like a little Dawg there Bill. why yes it does.... Uncle Bill needs carbide bits for Chrismas boyz and girls.... auto-confirm@amazon.com to Contacts list Delete this message from "auto-confirm@amazon.com" hide details 2:32 pm (1 hour ago) date Oct 22, 2007 2:32 PM subject Your Order with Amazon.com signed-by amazon.com mailed-by bounces.amazon.com Thanks for ordering from Amazon.com! Your purchase information appears below. Want to manage your order online? If you need to check the status of your order or make changes, please visit our home page at Amazon.com and click on Your Account at the top of any page. *********************************************************** BILLING AND SHIPPING INFORMATION *********************************************************** Order Grand Total: $514.49 *********************************************************** ORDER DETAILS *********************************************************** *********************************************************** Order number: xxxxxxxx View your Order Summary online: http://www.amazon.com Shipping Method: Standard Shipping Subtotal of Items: $499.00 Shipping & Handling: $15.49 --------- Total for this Order: $514.49 Shipping To Bill Coe Shipping estimate for these items: October 24, 2007 1 "Bosch 11536VSR Litheon 36 Volt Lithium-Ion BBS Rotary Hammer" Tools & Hardware; $499.00 Ohhh look boyz and girls, Uncle Bill has some routes up his sleeves I'll bet! Nahhh, it's cause Uncle Bills just a gearwhore.

Where?

Ha ha Peter. Clown trolling. Sometimes it just happens. I didn't wake up this morning thinking I could troll a couple of adults into a juvenile discussion - it just happened. Like magic. 13 new routes last year. 2 bolts. 14 routes, 3 bolts. Now, I gotta go pay for "the Dawg"....... and Kev, I got "Squeeze Job" copyrighted as a route name so don't even think of going there and poaching the name (it was Jimmy O's idea anyway) see ya all later. -BTW- 1st pitch shown here went without bolts. Or pro. After the tree, it got vertical for over 100 feet and went on natural pro. I got lucky and belayed that part. It awaits a second ascent Dwayner and Pope. No pro P1, 5 pieces on P2 last 100'- no protection bolts. I think you can do it. Come down. Lets see?

Nahhh, I have to say Peter that I don't really give a flying fu*k if I piss off a couple of clowns, looking forward to it.