billcoe

Good call, hope they take it to heart and camo. I've never been there and will confess I have no desire but expect I'll get tractor beamed in some rainy soggy weekend on an Ivan/Geoff aider dog fest at some point. I'm so so so so so glad that guy didn't put real bolts there. I was already shocked enough he was drilling and claiming there was no pro available without the hole/Removable Bolt combo platter where noobs can routinely get acceptable gear every 3 feet the entire way for aid practice. The holes are very unobtrusive though, bolts would have been ugly, unnecessary and one more place for your knee to slam into.

What location are you referring too Joseph? Rat cave? PS, the strobe light RFID chip had me cracking up the other day....classic!!! To all: let me add that I know of someone who added 3 drilled holes next to a 40 year old well traveled crack. He drilled next to a line that beginners aid up 100% with gear, just so that he could use Removable Bolts. His explanation to me was that the gear didn't work there. Drilling needless holes next to a crack that's been climbed for many years is bullshit even if you don't fill them, but once I got over my burn and finished a short tongue lashing discourse to the lad, I've interestingly noticed that I don't see the holes every time I do the route. On those few occasions where I do, it still makes me shake my head and grit my teeth a bit. Removable bolts aren't really the solution. Education and restraint are pretty much the best tools in our quivers.

Are you suggesting that they would disapprove of riding Mountain bikes on that trail I just posted above that is being built in the Colombia River Gorge? Cause I think they would like it El Jefe. I suspect that they would have a ball in some of the prettiest forests in the world and easily overlook the work, expense and environmental destruction it took to provide that experience. Perhaps they can answer that. For myself, I know I'd enjoy that. I've seen pics of them on Logging roads having fun with Mt bikes and they don't oppose the man made destruction of those trails and logging roads.... jus' sayin'.....

Favorite quote below "If we knew then what we know now, we wouldn't have blasted that off the face of the earth," said Kevin Price, Gorge district manager of the Oregon Parks and Recreation Department." No Don, I've been trying to figure out how you think hikers are leave no trace. Did you oppose this monstrosity? I didn't because I think it's awesome they built a massive paved superhighway hiking trail right through one of the prettiest places on Gods green earth. Really. It's going to be a hell of a hike or bike I bet. I'm super glad they let the bikes on it. This trail, compared to our vertical "hiking trails" as climbers that you seem to have devoted your life to ranting on is a huge and massive difference of scale. Yet it is in many ways exactly what climbers are doing, traveling a path. I don't get your denigrating climbers who want to climb bolted routes....at all. You don't want to climb them, then don't. This trail puts a tad more on the face of the earth than a few inert non-environmentally offensive bolts. Bet this new trail will be visible on Google earth via satellite photos. "HOOD RIVER --...... Just west of Hood River, another chunk of the Historic Columbia River Highway reopened its scenic grandeur to pedalers and pedestrians after a morning ceremony. The Highway When Bill Pattison was a youngster in 1940s Hood River, his father owned Weber Hardware Store at the corner of Oak and Fourth streets downtown. On hot summer nights, the family had a ready and nearby oasis: Viento Park, now known as Viento State Park. "The kids would play in the creek with the pollywogs and the minnows and so forth," Pattison said, "and the adults would sit around and drink the good whiskey." Ah, those were the times of pilfered watermelons and the heyday of a two-lane highway that linked the rural Columbia River Gorge with big city Portland, Pattison recalled. Pattison, the 80-year-old chairman of the Historic Columbia River Highway Advisory Committee, reminisced as he helped dedicate a 1-mile segment of the Historic Columbia River Highway State Trail between Viento State Park and Starvation Creek State Park. The trail segment, with its fresh layer of asphalt, is part of the 11 miles of the old highway path that have been built or restored since 1996. The ultimate goal is to create or restore 12 more miles and reconnect Portland to The Dalles for a recreational path serving hikers and cyclists -- without having to travel along the shoulder of Interstate 84. But I-84 sits on top of many of those 12 miles of historic highway. Worse still, one of the grandest sights of the old highway -- the five "windows" of the Mitchell Point Tunnel, also known as "The Tunnel of Many Vistas" -- was destroyed to make way for the interstate. "If we knew then what we know now, we wouldn't have blasted that off the face of the earth," said Kevin Price, Gorge district manager of the Oregon Parks and Recreation Department. But neither Friends of the Columbia Gorge nor the Oregon Department of Transportation is deterred. They have estimated costs and crafted concept plans to connect those 12 miles by 2016, the centennial of the opening of the old highway's first miles. And the new path, they vow, would not exceed the 5 percent elevation gain adhered to by Samuel C. Lancaster, the engineer who located and designed the highway in Multnomah County, setting the standard for future highway construction. But it would cost about $55 million to connect those last dozen miles, considered the most challenging segments of the project. A $1 million ODOT Transportation Enhancement Program grant paid for the 1-mile path between the Starvation Creek and Viento state parks. In March, as part of the ongoing project, the restored Oneonta Tunnel reopened. It was built in 1914 and closed in 1948. " Obligatory climbing photo below from today's climb. hmmmmm - I might not have much hair anymore but at least I can still get up 5.10. (sometimes:-) Here's one for Don and Eric, since you always post the photo of the circled bolts on a cliff to show what a "visual eyesore" and affront this is to you, find a single damn bolt in the picture of me drilling an anchor below. This was taken from @ 20 feet out of the base and there are 22 huge 1/2-13 x 6-1/4 stainless steel wedge anchors with the larger Fixe Stainless steel hangers on a route within feet of me. Find a SINGLE bolt please. Just one. Pic rotated to make Drew happy. Ciao! Edited to add: photo by Ujahn Davisson and Ponderosa has a great point. In fact, I don't know why use of (non-fixed) pitons haven't been banned in places like Yosemite, I'd support and rather see a bolt stuck in than to see the degradation of cracks that occurs with repeated and heavy pin use.

Maybe you can show which magazine covers are racist instead of offensive? Personally, the Obama as the Joker offended me a tad. The Joker was a mean MF psychopath and it's a poor comparison. I love the Mad magazine one though, especially as a former smoker myself and knowing how hard Obama was trying to quit at that time just as he took office. I can't even imagine the stress a President must be feeling, and to try and quit smoking? whew. This cover is funny and informative, the Obama as Heath Ledgers Joker poster is neither to me. I am reading "Lenins Tomb" right now (great book), and it's curious how many citizens in the Russian population supported (and still do) the murders of dissidents and others. If the poster is suppose to reflect on that, we'll, it worked that way for me.

Don't think it's racist at all. How is that racist???? It's a clever attempt to suggest that the President has Joker tendencies, did you watch the movie Batman? How is this racist again?

PP - I rated your post 5 stars, but probably would give track 3 only 2. Stuff was putting me to sleep, however, I think its Damn cool you dug it up and shared it .... thanks ps, ya want to get in the office pool - it's how long it will take some dickheads with bad reading comprehension to show up and call you racist as there are no blacks in the picture... I got 14 seconds....

You must have missed my earlier posts. Not only did I answer this question before you asked it (I'm a fat old guy and don't have a chance in hell of pulling a roof like this), but I gave you VERBATIM text of the first ascent party saying that it takes awesome gear and I suggested you contact them on the bolt question. They're all still around, most likely you will see them at the zone, just ask them their opinions on it first before you do it because in my book, their views counts for much more than mine, or anyone's, in this instance. In either case I bet they'd all be super stoked that you guys like the route so much!! What I said earlier a few posts into this thread was this: I haven't changed my views. Later Dustin suggested I replace the word project with route or climb so I just did that now. I'm not anti-bolt but it's not for me to say either way: to approve or disapprove in either way. The tradition of process which we all share is to show respect to the community and touch base with the FA dudes to get approval or not. Probably try and get the remaining part of the stuck gear out first anyway hey? Good luck!

My business partner tried to read it and couldn't get into it. The 3 I mention above are better.

that is the funniest thing i have ever read on this site pfft: my last 3 sex/sheep/midget jokes in spray were better.....

I need 6 to 8 Powers Rawl 5 piece 3/8 x 1-3/4 to 2" long for hand drilling on lead. Steel is fine as they'll be removed and replaced with larger stainless. I can trade for bigger stainless wedge anchors straight across. I figure someone has these sitting around from the old days before they got a powerdrill and they won't use them. I can pay cash. I really shouldn't use 1/4", but if you have 5/16" I could go there. In PDX.

I just finished The Great Game - The Struggle for Empire in Central Asia, definatly worth the time to read it. As well as what you mentions, it gave me some insights to the USSR/Russian and Iranian mentality that I had no solid awareness of.

I think Don has something with that. Gyms and gear shops make money by bringing in customers. However, why he can make a trail to the base of his climb as he stomps on the vegetation and kill all the lichen up a cliff with his passage and smugly think that his is a valid form of ascent but what others do in clipping bolts is not valid climbing is what many of us disagree with. They both are climbing.

We must assume it would be because of the inevitable insane and inane Raindawg rant/Clown postings/personal attacks which must soon accompany it. I mean, if he finds bolts disturbing, he'll be real pissed at this large earthmoving project. Good luck to you all in getting the gov't turned backasswards again, thanks for the heads up Blake.

True dat Kev. I think all of us agree that crafting a line that others will find of value is a consideration. No matter if it's JH trad'ing Menopause, that's a consideration. If it's a knob route with no cracks, it's a consideration as well. What do we owe those that follow? What is value? Do we owe them anything? Nothing? Adventure? Safety? Tough and complex choices much of it based on what we each bring to the party from our own life experience and attitudes.

I'm with you on all but one point, but having hand drilled on lead I can assure you there will be LESS, not MORE bolts on most ground up routes. The bolts will need to be replaced sooner though. Around here on basalt, hand drilled bolts often are on the kind of stances where you will snap an ankle if you fall from above it. On granite, a stance will often be a little swell or dish, on basalt, it's usually a ledge of some sort. I think it should be totally an area dependent discussion. Smith Rocks is different than Index and Beacon and the bolting traditions have evolved in the communities differently for reasons that are grounded in a true reality.

Michael Lane from Omega Pacific says on RC.Noob that they will be adding info to the instruction sheet and are intending to beef up or change the material on the pins....but it doesn't appear to be the issue here at all.....Unless making the pins more malleable might lead to pin deformation instead of the actual cam breaking on those angled placements.

Glad to hear you're over that. I doubt you got flack from anyone who's opinion matters to you. I think some posts got deleted, can't figure out why I deleted my stuff from todays viewpoint.....hmmm. SIGH, LINK - LIKE WE NEED ANOTHER OZONE THREAD:-)

I'm looking for a Video I posted a while ago and keep seeing this kind of thread. deja Vue all over again!!!!

Deja Vue moment.

Great and easy are two different things JH. And no one strays onto this climb. You lower off it 20 feet back from where you start. One does not start up it without having some years under there belt as a climber, guide book or not. That was sarcasm Kev, coming over from the Reasonable Richard bolt discourse you started in spray. Of course this is an obvious roof. _________________________________________________________________ So how would one get the cam head out? Could the thing be sawed out? I heard of someone doing that to a Camalot once, but I think it was much bigger so it would be easier to get in to it. For the record, I don't have time to head up and work on a route that's over my head anyway so I'm out, but I'm just curious. I would think that getting in a good position (assuming the good placement is now useless) work on it might be the crux. Could you sling it around the back of the cam lobes and funkness it out? ______________________________________________________________ Doug, you are right, as always. I think I wound up saying F* it and deleting the thing off the site.

Bill any idea where one can read about the Metolius tests? In general I agree that most of what climbers do is "faith" based; however, the 5% failure rate seems very high. you're so needy..... Peter, that was a Richard Goldstone quote (the Gunks climber/mathematician) I copied and pasted up there. I do remember that myself and in my poor memory I think it might have been in an interview with Doug Phillips. I'm thinking one of the climbing mags. The rest of the story which got seared into my brain, and the important lesson for us, is that they recommended just giving each of our cam placements a slight tug, essentially to set it/confirm it's good.

Hola John!! Those guys videoed Kelton leading the FA on that thing and he made it look like a 5.7 the kid was so smooth. It was a real good video too, and interestingly I got flack for sharing it on CC.com. You guys might do a search, it was good stuff. I guess it's OK to post some Anal fixation band video or monkeys clanging symbols, Pam Anderson pictures are fine too but interestingly any actual climbing. Say for example a super nice and strong kid pulling a sick wicked roof on gear first ascent is out of the question:-(

Maybe you should run it by the "Fixed Alien and/or bolt committee"? Here: http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/896687/20/Sport_vs_Trad Of course that's a joke if you clicked that link at all. That is actually what hell will be like when we die. ps, Dustins original email to me said this: "Angle of the Dangle (12c). Draws, Small TCUs/Ball Nuts. A unique and exciting project! From right side of cave, navigate your way up to large roof crack. Punch in bomb-proof gear!! Layout, jam, then crank past the cruxy lip. Keep your composure and finish on the bolted headwall (optional piton). Prep. M. Seidenschmid / Prep & FFA Kelton Rappleyea 9.25.07" Don't know what wound up in the book. Ask Dustin, Kelton and Martin about a bolt. That kid Kelton sure seems like a great guy. PM me if you need an email address.

Which part Andrew?