billcoe

The best deals in Bend are in Redmond. Closer to Smith as well:-)

Ditto!

Ahhh, you got bolted routes up there? Schweet! And most impressive, sunshine! Woot! Haven't seen any of that down here for weeks. How high is that?

There were 100+ MPH winds at the coast which blew the roof off my house there sometime when the storm came though, maybe not the same day but still....Can't speak for Hood conditions Steve. You interested in doing a reroof? ..this is probably less than 1/2 a mile from where the dude was found Sweet picture Chris. That's what I'm saying. Fairly easy to avoid ....most of the time. When you can see it:-) Like on a day you took that great picture, hah hah. Is that in the fall, like October/November Chris? I tend to give little weight to news articles Steve. The few I've been associated with haven't come close to accuracy, even when I've talked slow and spelled it out slowly, literally spelling words). Yeah, my strategy, as a pup, was to look at White River Canyon intently in August/September. Try to get the last snow on the upper ridge if climbing. If there was no snow up there, then just camp and hike around the area. Then when I was up there later starting @ Jan/Feb and conditions were colder and snowier, try to mentally recreate where things where during the earlier warm days. It would just look so damned different. Chris's photo would be more of a soft pillowy rolling blanket. With lumps. More than once I just camped on the edge of WW canyon, smoked a bowl and looked at that light white blanket hiding the sure death underneath and bailed, feeling like a chickenshit at the time. Sometimes I'd take my pup, Tasha, up if I knew the weather was bad. My wife has a memory of us all going up and my bringing the dog back to the tent at o dark thirty and asking her to hold her so I could do a lap. She'd tried to follow and after an hour as light cracked, I'd catch a slight black glimpse out of sight. Finally stopped and saw her. LOL, what a great adventure dog:-) It's why I have more of an affinity to Cooper Spur I suppose although it's taken some folks I knew. Good climbers and good folks. No Crevasses there, better views and camping, but a potential fall. I'm feeling much more smug as I age in either case. Really, I live in a glass house here, can't be bitching about others. I wasn't there and I've been fortunate to both have smarter folks than me talk me out of stupidity, or when solo not get tagged. I've done so many stupid things and just got lucky that I can only shrug and say "right on for surviving it man". I remember one lap with a buddy bumping into John Petrosky and his dad on the way down. The upper slop of Wyeast was fresh deep snow: lots of it. I was thinking "Avalanche for sure", but looked down (way down!) shrugged and figured it would be a hell of a ride and went for it. I wanted to climb and we'd finally gotten to the steep fun part. Buddy followed. I was thinking "this is dumb" the whole time. Did it anyway. John and his dad, who at the time was one of the most experienced mountaineer's in the state, had bailed due to possible avalanche on the west face chute. I was embarrassed to have summitted in those conditions and felt stupid enough that I remember that feeling of being a dumbass to this day. That we never called SAR back then may be more of a reflection on the fact that cell phones had not been invented. ? I suppose that we all have similar kinds of skeletons in our closest if we really remember and consider it. Take care all, and walk a mile in the guys shoes. Or even 20 steps if it's a true whiteout:-)

...correction. There are crevasses in White River Canyon. Some sizable ones. When I was a pup, I'd go lap Wyeast from the lodge and at times could be quite mentally taxing crossing White River to the other side depending on what the snow conditions and how much visible light there was. Cough * solo * cough * stupid. I would think that this is the worst time of year, especially if you couldn't see. A bit of snow but not enough to make a blind pitch into the void safe...... Dude might have been up at the Wyeast headwall as that's about the elevation isn't it, and perhaps that was what he thought was the "cliff" he mentioned in the article. There are no crevasses there, but there are plenty below further down. None of us were there. There are a shitload of factors that undoubtedly weighed on his mind. Exhaustion, dehydration and physical factors which we, at our keyboards sipping a latte, may not be considering. I'd give the guy the benifit of the doubt on that. Starting up knowing the weather was coming in, on the other hand..... ...meh, glad he's safe. As far as endangering rescuers, I always (when young, no one ever calls me anymore, which is a good thing:-) ) enjoyed the invitation to head up in shite conditions. It's voluntary and good times.

Yeah, except no map. It would have ripped out of your hands and blown into the next county had you been able to get a hold of it to begin with. Hard enough to pull out a compass that's on a cord around yer neck and get a bearing in those conditions. None of us were there. That dude was, and a dying phone might even made a different outcome had it been charged. We all like to think what would we do if we were Joe Simpson, would I have cut the cord on my buddy.... meh. Better to be alive than not.

This place would be empty. We'd never hear from Trash again and my post count would be way down. LOL.

OK, we all know that there are no more sale ropes.....wait....WTF, check it out. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Edelweiss-Rocklight-9-8-mm-X-60-M-Dynamic-Climbing-Rope-Yellow-/150959511289?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2325e356f9 $80.57 free shipping. Edelweiss Rocklight 9.8 mm X 60 M Dynamic Climbing Rope Yellow They had a 70 meter listed for a low $93 bucks earlier which has been relisted Broadman!!! http://www.ebay.com/itm/Edelweiss-Rocklight-9-8-mm-X-70-M-Dynamic-Climbing-Rope-Yellow-/400341008951?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d362f0237

Clearly knot a hoax. In fact, you may be interested that I have actual scientific first hand visual proof? I mixed a bourbon soda, and when I went to the freezer there were NO ice cubes. N.O. Ice cubes. ZERO. Ergo....NOT a hoax! REPEAT: NOT A HOAX!!!!!! Cubes B gone! Clearly it's too warm for them, they melted and there was run off. There can't be any alternative explanation. BTW, didn't we already discuss this earlier? I mean, extensively and for years?

Nice Steve! Woot! Community Service request. Anyone hiking to the top, the rest of the loose branches we cut on the service day are still stacked on the trail near the top. I didn't talk to Ranger Karl on the who what when where or why (he was going to have prisoners haul that stuff off and it was pouring rain and we were beat that we left it). BUT, if you feel like doing a nice service for the park folks, hike up with a haul bag and stuff a bunch in. He didn't want to toss them over the rail or I could have done that myself.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/03/business/media/david-oliver-relin-co-author-of-three-cups-of-tea-dies-at-49.html?smid=tw-nytimesworld&seid=auto Probable suicide.

Nice. No info here. How high are they Steve? Is that tunnel anything worthwhile? Looks enchanting. Maybe run it by Tim Olsen, he's the encyclopedia. Someone once told me that they mentioned a "new" cliff they found to Tim, and once Tim got the location fixed in his mind came up with a name and who had been climbing there B4. I know that there's "secret" cliffs not in his new book. But other than the 2 locations I know of that Tim knows I don't know much more than that. In either case, he'd get a kick out of hearing of it.

Well, I wasn't going to weigh in but here goes. A compass sounds like the schizz and you should have one on you, but are near (I said "near") worthless in a total shitstorm. The problem is that there is nothing to fix on, and as you can't even see your feet, the strong sideways gusts you always get make you wonder if you are heading south, or if you are only believe that you are heading south but are actually looking due south and being blown 3 steps east for every one south. You can't tell. Since you are stumbling because you can't see the ground and every little dip catches you unawares, you don't trust anything. Including the compass. It's easy to get blown off course, and you know it's happening for certain, yet you don't know the extent of it. Most people that I've seen over the years get into a winter shitstorm like Mr Kish, wind up in White River canyon. As the canyon goes a bit kittywampus and has a steep entry point, anyone looking at a compass thinking they are on the south Timberline heading is surprised and confused when they hit that entry slope. And often folks will tell you that their first encounter with that slope is that they take a step and as they don't see it, they roll down the thing in the soft snow. Now the wind is whipping the soft snow sideways over the lip, they've rolled towards the east, they can't see shit, and it makes it even worse for visibility and adds to the confusion level. Who knows where he was. Kish says he encountered a cliff, the only real cliff up there may be Mississippi Head, but that's a lower elevation. So who can say. A GPS would have helped the most, I understood that the only GPS he had was his phone. I used to carry an altimeter as GPS wasn't invented yet, but truthfully, looking at one when you can't see your feet or identify the 2 foot indentation you just tumbled into, tells your location incrementally only a bit more. Having a buddy can help. My buddy Bob and I hiked down from Silcox to Timberline one shitstorm and he got a frostbitten face from looking at the compass every 100 steps or so. I was just trying to stay within 2 feet of him as he had the compass:-) Periodically we'd stop to reaffirm to each other that we were going the right way. Nice to have a trustworthy partner. The big issue is that dude shouldn't have headed up knowing that shit weather was heading in. Period. I've done it. Maybe you've done it - we've all done dumb stuff. That was dumb. The frostbite story above was a from a guides meeting we had in the hut. As I was descending I was thinking, "this was dumb". There was like 12 or so of us up there overnighting and we could have easily lost a guide -perhaps several, on the short hike down to Timberline. It could have been me had Bobs back disappeared for more than a couple seconds. He wouldn't have heard me yelling, you could barely stand up and you couldn't see your feet. As I've gotten old and soft, it's easier to stay where it's warm, so I don't want this to be perceived as a criticism. I'm just sayin. I've been up on and summited that Mt ever month of the year. We all go out into some stuff sometimes and it's stupid to do it in winter when a world class storm is heading in unless you are looking for an extreme challenge, in which case, don't call for a rescue. Best to all, an congrats on the #1 thing of importance to Kish or anyone in that space. Survival.

Chalk is way overdone, and should be the one of the last things to add to your quiver. Somehow everyone starts with it anyway. Sadly.[/end preaching] I tend to not use chalk on easier routes or in the desert, but do have a use for a trad chalkbag anyway. If you are planning on getting outside on longer routes, a "Trad chalkbag" (my term) might be looked at and this is why. "Trad Chalkbags" have a zipper on it that leads to a small pocket. Put inside the pocket these 4 items: 1st) A small lighter. Smallest you can find. Bic makes reliable stuff. It is smaller than the regular (but still small) Bic lighter. Don't be fetching it out all day long to spark doobies or it might be out of fuel for when you get overnighted far from the car in cold weather and wish you had it working to start that small fire that will save your life. 2nd) A half a piece of paper towel (aka discount toilet paper that will double as firestarter). I like the paper towel as they are strong. If you wish to go totally minimalist, just put in a single square of toilet paper in there. But don't come whining when that breakfast burrito you wolfed down in the am despite smelling funny goes bad on ya and your fingers wind up smelling bad. 3rd) A small lightweight knife (or alternatively, a razor blade wrapped in tape. 2 words only: Trango Piranha....or is it Razor ... Blade? Hmmm. Both will cut webbing at belay stations or in case you need to cut your partners rope AKA Joe Simpson style, but the Trango has an edge for slicing small sticks and twigs to make fine kindling. The razor blade comes wrapped in a stiff paper that you can burn. Once you take the tape off:-) 4th) A lightweight emergency headlamp. Black Diamond has a small 30 gram monster called the Ion (OK, about an ounce) that will beam out pretty good for 20 meters they say. The little batterys cost almost as much to replace as the light, which is cheap to start with. In fact, all my neices and nephews and kids got one a few Christmas's back. The price you pay will long be forgotten the first time you almost shit your pants out in the dart till you remember that you have it stashed in your bag. Be aware that they have a parasitic leak, meaning that eventually they will die, so reverse teh battery if that's an issue, which is bullshit to have to redo when it's dark out, but pick one. A) dead battery when you need it B) Pain in the ass to configure but working.....This little thing is to augment another headlamp, not to replace it. Or for emergencies. My kid had one in his chalkbag and he and a group of friends got benighted in Hells canyon on a climbing trip. They had one headlight between all of them and a bad steep trail. It was the POS I'd bought the kid, an old early model Ion AND IT STILL HAD BATTERY LIFE! It was enough to make it safe and helped out a lot. The boy listens a bit closer when the old man liberally rambles incoherently now. Sierra Trading post has them for $10 now. http://www.sierratradingpost.com/black-diamond-equipment-ion-headlamp-led~p~3539r/?utm_source=GooglePLAs&utm_medium=PaidShopping&utm_term=Black_Diamond_Equipment_Ion_Headlamp_-_Led&utm_campaign=PCGOOGLEPLA2&codes-processed=true Plan on paying about that to replace the little POS unusual 6V battery inside. I had bought that Arc'Teryx bag that has the zipper for my boy, the 50p (REI had it for $24.93, which is too damned much $ unless it's a gift I suppose) works great for him and he loves it. The Metolius, Wild Country are also high quality. The Red Chili, however, leaks dust into the zippered compartment. Note that all of those companys also make non-zippered bags as well. The total weight of all those items will be less than if you just took some of the chalk out, and it will be much more important in an emergency. ta ta!

EXACTLY! My ex-next door neighboor. Wow! Damn near beyond belief. Good guy, much more liberal than some of the more liberal libs here...but...as they are moving it comes up that he'd had a loaded shotgun leaning on the wall behind his bedroom door the entire 6 years that they had lived there. "But what about yer kids?" Says I. "They were taught at an early age not to touch it". "Loaded? Like full of shells?" says I... "Yeah", he looks me in the eyes "An unloaded gun is worthless". "I'm sure your kids were fine, but what about all the other neighboor kids who were running through here every summer..." " My kids wouldn't let them touch it"....he says. Fuck. And I though I was crazy. My kids would have been fine as they were trained as well. But the rest of the munchkins? Hmmm, bad idea to give children access to loaded shotguns. Never admitted to him that I'd bought gas masks for my family, and for all the kids on the block including his kids, but not for him and his wife. The only adult I confessed that too got all strange on me. Anyhows, back on topic. The plot thickens. Is everyone, and not just Trash and Rob, sniffing bath salts these dayz? https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/deport-everyone-signed-petition-withdraw-their-state-united-states-america/dmQl1bXL My state: "A petitioner from Tillamook, Ore., identified by the site as Kristopher W, worded his state’s petition this way: “Allow Oregon to vote on and leave the union peacefully and remain an ally to the nation.” He continues, “With the federal government increasing its size much larger than our Founding Father’s intended, and its abuse of power trumping over the rights of state constitutions, and the forcing of unconstitutional laws over its own citizens, the people of Oregon would like the chance to vote on leaving the Union immediately. The federal government has imposed policies on Oregon that are not in Oregon’s best interests, and we as citizens would respectively and peaceably separate ourselves from a tyrannical government who cares nothing about creating a sustainable future for our children. At any time that the citizens of Oregon [should feel] the federal government was no longer imposing on the Constitution, we could re-vote to again join the union under a new agreement.” One of the contrary petitions reads this way: “Strip the Citizenship from Everyone who Signed a Petition to Secede and Exile Them.” It continues, “Mr. President, please sign an executive order such that each American citizen who signed a petition from any state to secede from the USA shall have their citizenship stripped and be peacefully deported.” LOLZ ! Off to planet ....with ya! __________________________________________________ edited to add, a petition to end petitions LOL. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/shut-down-white-house-petitions-they-never-get-sincere-response-few-read-them-they-are-ultimately/nBtJ7d4R

Cape Horn would be perfect. A) Easy access B) No rock routes. I'd stay off Cigar Rock, it does have routes. Cape Horn: If you are looking for some FA's, the 3 pinnacles on the left in the lower photo are as yet unclimbed I believe. I was thinking of it, but keep putting it off. You can literally take a (new) easy, wide trail from the SR 14 road to the top of the cliff above the RR portal and set up a toprope (stay off the tracks of course). Park at the obvious turnout with the portapotty (which may be gone as they are doing road construction) at approx milepost 27-28 at the sharp right hand sweeping turn (you'll see the trail right there, no trail head marker yet) or I can give you better directions to get to the base of pinnacles with out rapping. To the right of that grassy spot in the lower pic, from the car, is less than a 1/4 and close to flat. Real sweet, easy, wheelchair access. The west side of the cliffs, accessed via the lower Cape Horn trail area, closes in Feb due to Peregrines, however, you could probably (cautiously) go to the other end of the cliff after Feb. The upper stays open and there is a couple cliffs up there that would be less desirable. The other end of the lower band has got to be close to a full mile away, and that side (east side) would be further complicated as the lower part is private property (farms). Lets see a trip report of how heinous it is:-) Wear helmets....have fun.

Texas has the votes required to get a "piss off" from the President. (25,000) Should be interesting to see how he handles the petition. Maybe a B-Ark? B-Ark(Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy): Their ancestors founded Texas it's said.

Sorry to hear it. We'll all keep an eye out for your stuff too. Few things worse than having your gear ripped off. What a pisser. Anything you can add? Markings, tape or paint, photos? The keeper sling on the grigri is pretty unique, what color is it? What color was the Grigri? What color was the reverso 3, what color was the rope? Other things like that? Like I have a lead rope I put 2 big assed black middle marks 5" long that are @ 6" apart which really would make an otherwise regular tan Mammut 10.5 rope really stand out.

Yes Murray -we use to. When I was young many people would put poppies on their lapels this day. Don't know why it ended. The poppies would grow wild where the shells of big guns had slammed and tilled the earth. So you had these wide swaths of destruction, where not even a blade of grass was left standing, turn into a beautiful field of a rolling carpet of pretty poppies after the troops stopped lobbing shells. As far as the poems go, the Wilfred Owens poem was always preferred by me as well. However, the poppies are the symbol of the great war, and Flanders Fields, despite being written by a Canadian, is the poem most commonly associated with it. Interestingly, in France, for domestic consumption: the Americans (and even lesser the Canadians) are noted in passing, and appear to have little historical mention as effecting the outcome. The vets of WW1 were dismayed to see that the War to End all Wars really was only just another big assed way when WW2 started. My grandfather was a Marine in WW1 stuck in the trenches of Belgium. His son - my dad, was in the 8th air force in WW2 and basically tilled the same earth.

Congrats and thanks to all who worked on this or even just tossed a letter into the ring explaining why option 2 would be the more desirable option for us. May the Climbers and the Eagles both flourish.

Having spoken to thousands of voters over the years, I can tell you first hand that this lame attempt at denigrating the American electorate is dead wrong. It was heartening on Halloween, when handing out candy, to hear several parties of adults having spirited (but otherwise friendly) political discourse on issues down on the sidewalk whilst waiting for their charges to beg and accumulate candy. It warmed my heart as much as seeing some of the little ones all dressed up.

Thus ends the day of remembrance of Armistice day, to celebrate the end of the War which would end all wars. Perhaps in Afghanistan, where they know for poppies, we can end that on 11-11-2014 as an end date so that the poppies can continue to be utilized as a symbol? All that's needed is a solid catch phrase. The "War to End all Wars" has already been done.

You'll get a lot of opinions here:-) I'd add mine on too. Good advice on biners upthread. I have a mix of Camp Nanos (almost too small but they work) and Wild Country Heliums. Loves me da Heliums ! On nuts: The Ukrainians claim that their plastic nuts are the lightest made: but they're not. They're sort of OK. However, the DMM wallnuts work much better and are very close to comparable weight wise. The DMM wallnuts are lighter than the DMM offsets Mike mentions, and also go up in size, potentially allowing you to drop a few cams (depending on what route you are on). There are times where offset nuts just work so good though, that it's hard not to take some anyway even when you are trying to go light. Any kind of pin scarred granite, they have no equal. That includes both the smaller brass ones and the larger alum offsets. Cams The Metolius four cams are very light cam and grip so awesome. If you are carrying a full rack of cams you can do the math and add the grams since both Metolius and BD have shifted things a bit, but it use to be you could carry an extra Metolius for the same or less weight than a rack of Camalots. I love Camalots too (better than the DMM Dragons) but they do weigh more, and if I have a choice of carrying 10 cams or 11 cams that weight less than the 10, AND actually grip better as well, I'm taking 11 for lighter weight. There's a reason that movie of Peter Croft and Lisa Rands are doing that 5.12 route on the Hulk with Metolius cams. Light. Work great. I'd pass on the new Wild Country Helium Cams. (I confess to only owning one set). I don't think they deliver a lot for what you pay for and was disappointed in them. If you can get a pro deal, I'd do it (OK, I go the deal and did it:-), but don't use them. Slings Too obvious, but note that the skinny 6mm Dyneema Mammut slings have a real short life and that's a huge trade off IMO. Sometimes you get that trade off with cams as well, and as Mike suggested, you get long life on those old thicker nylon slings they use to sling cams with. Regardless, the weight gain of a 6mm (do they even make them now?) over a 8mm sling is negligible, and if you are a sloth like most of us, 10mm can be tossed around and mistreated a lot longer and still be safe for a slight weight gain. I still use sewn 10mm slings I'd bought 20 years back for toproping. I do wonder what they'd test too.

~John McCrae, 1915

This debate could go on for a long time. However, it's in the "newbie" thread so that's where my thoughts were going and our responses should be directed to. As far as Matts insult/suggestion that don't trust the internet or specifically these guys responding to the post -I feel that is way off base. Some of the guys responding on this thread are total kick assed dudes who have as more real world experience and smarts than 90 percent of the "Guides" out there. I don't include myself in there: however the last few times I've bumped into "actual" guides it's been on long routes where I wish they would hurry up and bail or get the heck out of my way. I've been unimpressed with their belay setups which are slow, cumbersome, and add nothing of value. Last time was with Ujahn on Epinephrine, and as we caught up with the 2 in front each and every pitch despite giving them a breather starts (ie waiting a bit, it was 2 guides not guide/client) when we compared notes later Ujahn and I both learned the same thing, that neither of those guides was familiar and had ever seen anyone tie in with the climbing rope, which is a faster and stronger method than they were employing on the same route. Turns out that the AMGA at that time was into the whole cordelette thing. The fact that it works well for guides, especially large groups, is true. But a better way existed for 2 skilled guys climbing a route with no deadweight and they had no clue. They were on a climbing trip around the country and had been getting in a lot of mileage, but they were only climbing with each other and thus not broadening their knowledge base too much. So take that as you will. There is a place in the world for Cordelette/equalettes/clusterfuckolets. But a newbie climbing established routes with his buddy isn't one of them in my opinion. That's what this thread is about. That said, I suggest learning everything you can -and then some, including how to tie the equallete. Having extra arrows in your quiver never hurts, and you may decide that you like it. I go out with folks that use them and it's fine with me when I'm on lead and I know that they have a system that works for them. Getting out into the wild blue yonder and off the beaten track, having that extra piece of cord can be a godsend. But that discussion can be in a thread not titled Newbies IMO.