Dr_Flash_Amazing

It's all in the .

Actually, Bronco, it should be noted that while this resembles a conspiracy in some ways, conspiracies usually involve black helicopters. Conspiracies are exciting, but it's important to keep a level head and look at the facts when examining purported conspiracies.

Dr. Flash Amazing doesn't know squat about City of Rocks except that it's granite and in Idaho. Red Rocks, on the other hand, is one of the Doctor's fave destinations. The weather is excellent this time of year, usually dry, with temps topping out around 60, give or take, and lows in the 30s. In DFA's past 6 or so trips down there after Christmas, he's only had perhaps 3 days of climbing get rained out. Keep in mind, though, that the sandstone gets very soft if it gets rained on, so you have to wait a full day before climbing on it again, lest holds come snapping off left and right. The rock is beautiful fine-grained red (duh) sandstone with lots of cool black plates of patina, making for excellent incut holds. There are tons of sport routes all over the grading scale, probably tipped slightly towards the 5.11 and 5.12 end of things, but there's no shortage of fun routes in the 5.10s. Red Rocks sport routes are usually home to lots of bolts, which is nice for the new leader (or the skittish veteran). There's also some fun bouldering outside the park proper. It's a convenient 15 minutes from the strip mall 'n' subdivision hell of Las Vegas, making it easy to get provisions or lurk at Starbucks on a rest day (or catch a movie, or hit a casino, or shop for the same crap you could find anywhere, or get a shower, etc.). There is a well-stocked climbing/outdoor store (Desert Rock Sports) which is right next to the climbing gym, which has showers for a couple bucks. A new campground was put in a couple years ago, which is about 5 minutes from the park entrance, and costs a sort of steep $10 a night, but you get picnic tables, barbecues, fire rings, clean outhouses, and no highway noise. And, of course, Las Vegas is the home of the cheap hotel. The actual park is on a fantastically stupid one-way loop drive which is thirteen miles long, with all 3 sport climbing areas being in the first 3 miles, and most of the trad climbing being in the last 5. Nice. It costs $5 a day to get in, but a $25 annual pass is the way to go if you're going to be there long enough. This also gets you to the visitors' center, where there is a pay phone, the usual visitors' center stuff, and fabulous heated bathrooms, as well as drinking water. Pick up 'Red Rocks Select' by Todd Swain for sport routes and a good bit of the trad stuff, or supertopo.com just came out with a new trad book if that's your gig. Viva Las Vegas!

Wrong side of the argument too, putz.

Inconceivable!

Yeah, those dirty savages need to keep their political hands (and money) to themselves, like everyone else does.

Damn, you right-wingers are no fun when you don't stick to the script (like we left-wingers, ha ha)! Really, though, the argument about resource use was directed at Greg and Trask, and DFA assumed that those of you to whom it didn't apply would recognize that it didn't apply and ignore it. Anyway, Rob, global warming is bad and it's all George Bush's and Rush Limbaugh's fault. What's to discuss, really?

Iain's post brings to mind another question. Y'all republiconz seem to be all for unchecked consumption of resources; forests, oil, etc. and seem unconcerned that we'll ever run out of the shit, which may or may not be the case. Why, then, when one fraction of our recreational resources is threatened to be removed from use, you shit blocks of Frank Endo brand gymnastic chalk about it? Something tells DFA that if Exxon found oil there or if Bechtel was going to develop it for mining, you wouldn't give a shit about Cave Rock, as it's just a piece of shit sport crag and there's plenty of climbing around there. Or would you be crapping yourself that this was just the first step in big corporations taking away our climbing areas? The day it happens (and sooner or later, it will), DFA will laugh his ass off.

Well-reasonedly stated, Senor Puget. DFA is a big fan of compromise and diplomacy most of the time, but this time he felt that culture trumped compromise. Whether the cultural argument is truly bullshit as put forth by the Washoe is hard to say (the Doctor did look, by the way, and couldn't find much info on their religious practices and culture in general). Also, DFA visited your profile and "You rated this user a 5." We'll see if it ups your star average.

Muffy, that's a tough call. While Cave Rock is but a tiny chunk of available climbing surfaces in the Tahoe area, Smith Rock is the only climbing resource of its size and scope within 8 hours' drive. Given that Smith sees gazillions of visitors, DFA would probably endorse the a compromise option rather than opting to give up climbing there altogether.

That's just it, Rob, it seems like the Washoe are going through the proper channels to secure what they want, i.e. this chunk of andesite. They're not just sitting outside the Forest Circus office protesting, they're taking appropriate action for the end that they seek. It's not just crying for a handout. Shit, they're not even getting anything material out of it. They're not being given the land, they're not putting in slot machines and charging a fee to get it. Just asking folks to stay off the rox.

Of course the Doctor believes what he spews! But arguing's kinda fun, too. Say, haven't you been known to do a little trolling on occasion, you know, just for the sake of arguing? Yeah, DFA remembers something along those lines.

Trask, why are you backing the climbing community's "poor me" stance? Poor us, we are losing our crag. The "poor me" argument only seems to bug you when it's coming from a direction you don't like. Plus, DFA's shamelessly bleeding heart is naturally drawn to the underdog, the little guy, the dark horse, and yes, the black sheep (once you go black, you'll never go back!).

Hey, why do you clowns even give a shit about preserving a sport climbing crag with routes that start at 5.11 and run up to 5.14, with the bulk of the routes in the 5.12 range? Do you even have anything to lose here?

Damn, Trask, you big doofus; this has nothing to do with whether Native Americans can make something of themselves here in the great land o' the free. It's about whether we're being selfish pricks as climbers and disrespecting something that they hold as culturally significant. And, hell, it sounds like the Washoe are doing their land-of-the-free best and going through the right channels to accomplish their goal. They're not just sitting at home whining about it.

OK. The Washoe don't do anything with Cave Rock, and they don't hold Cave Rock as a religious or culturally significant site. If that's actually true, then maybe the whole thing is bullshit. But if it is true, what good would it do them to tie up a bunch of time and resources just to stop people from climbing there? It doesn't make much sense that a tribe of 1,500 would just arbitrarily go to the trouble of keeping people off some rock if it didn't mean something to them.

It's a humble Legacy, you bourguois swine-pig, you're the one with the leather seats Out-in-the-back-parking-lot-of-the-mall yuppiemobile. Get it straight, honky.

No. But maybe it should give you something to think about as far as being run off your land and left with nothing. DFA's fractional amount of Cherokee blood makes him think that maybe, here and there, it might be a nice show of humility on the part of our arrogant nation to make a few concessions to Native Americans. You wouldn't hammer out an aid line on a mosque, you wouldn't chalk up and boulder inside a Buddhist temple, you wouldn't put up routes in a church; why not acknowledge that the same thing has basically been done at Cave Rock, and do the respectful thing and leave it alone?

Greg, we hardly gave the losers "all sorts of free shit." The natives have been stuck with a bunch of barely livable dirt that most people wouldn't want to put a parking lot on. Shit, some of the land that was given them has even been flooded by dams, forcing them onto even shittier land. It's not like they all have mansions in Del Mar and free use of Air Force 1. It's not guilt, it's fucking outrage. As far as our having taken the land "fair and square" (ha ha -- not), do you feel that standard should be applied everywhere, or just to the fragmented remnants of subjugated cultures? If DFA brings 50 armed people to your house, kills your family and fences you off in the corner of your back yard, is that fair because superior might made it so? If the government takes your property to build a freeway through it, is it tough shit for you? If they come through with tanks and drive you out, leaving you no recourse; oh, well, they took it, so you're out of luck?

You and RobBob are right. Indians are poor and lazy, we took over their land because they were too weak and stupid to defend it adequately, and what's left of their culture and traditions should die ASAP so we can get on with our all-important pursuits of acquisition and contrived recreation. Onward the white man and glorious homogenized monoculture!

Tsing Tao!

You no like Pacer? You got something against America, man? Some kind of communist guy like in China?

Man, you're bitchy lately; what's up with that? DFA isn't going to flame you, despite your decision to grill the Doctor. This isn't some case of "a few people lived in the area," this is nations of people who have systematically been lied to, stolen from, murdered, and crammed on to some of the most worthless tracts of dirt our fair nation has to offer. Now, they ask for a little respect of an area they consider holy, and it's way too much to ask? Bugger that, hoss. One crag (a sport crag, no less -- since when are you so concerned about sport climbing?) at Lake Tahoe, which is surrounded by climbing and close to world-class climbing and bouldering in several directions, and it's too much. They're infringing on our rights as climbers. Rock climbing as we know it has been around for what, 40 or 50 years? And this somehow trumps hundreds of years of native tradition? Shit, you yourself are against adding a bolt to an established climb as it would ruin the route's character and natural difficulty. Yet you can't see the reason in closing a crag to maintain something of cultural importance; a culture that's damn near gone? Ahh, the Monday morning debate. Fabulous.

Jeez, Trask, what a devoted lover you are! Going down on the stinky end like that ...

Ehhh? You no like? Have tent, very pretty for go camping! Nice backdoor party tail part, make thrusting at pretty campsite girl. You no like camping girl? What, you swishy-swishy guy or something? AZTEK: Real zooming man-car for mountain guy, go buy now.