Layback

There are legal limits and there are ethical limits. 12 on the Tooth is way beyond the realm of ethical. My Mountaineers groups, which include students, never exceed 4 on a rock climb or ice climb and never exceed 6 on a glacier. You can be respectful to the climbing community and still get your students the experience you/they desire if you take the time to care.

It looks like it could have been the WAC (and according to their calendar they'll have a big group there Saturday and Sunday too): http://wacclass.org/calendar/weekend_calendar.htm Here's an image from their trip there last year. Seems kind of excessive if you ask me. I wish people would hold them accountable because they make all of the clubs look bad when they pull this crap. The Flickr set is here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/snutur/sets/72157618011237549/with/3529598416/ Another image from 2007: That set is here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewjohnsullivan/sets/72157600305414195/with/528494091/

Given the fact that she was a healthcare provider (inpatient physical therapist at VM), I'm willing to bet that she wasn't asking the world of REI. Most healthcare providers, and I deal with 100s for work, have a significant distaste for lawsuits. I suspect she was only asking for what she needed. Just a guess without doing any research.

Here's an interesting post from NWH that I'm going to quote and react to... I think that Mikey nailed the reasons for what I'd call REI's downfall over the last 5-6 years arriving where we are today with the Monika case. Once you link profit to compensation you lose sight of the people you serve and align yourself with the money you CAN MAKE by focusing on the biggest target audience with the largest margin. Another year goes by and you take another step away from your mission in order to advance the bottom line and increase revenue. I'm very disappointed in the direction that REI has taken and what they've become. Folks on the east coast will appreciate what EMS (Eastern Mountain Sports) has become. Once a retailer of only the finest outdoor gear, about 10 years ago they took a weird turn and became a retail clothing store with some outdoor gear. I'll never forget the first time I came to WA in 2001 and walked into the Flagship store. It was like I had landed in the center of the climbing universe. I used to tell people that every trip to the Cascades begins and ends at REI. I thought the contrast between REI and EMS was so awesome. I think the advent of the REI corporate bonus is what has shaped them into an EMS "me-too". Monika's case is just another symptom of this. It's very disappointing...

Here's the form letter I got in response. Curious if others received the same...

Email sent. Linky.

The following images are circa 2000 incase the mullet offends ya'. Jeff on "Jackie", a Gunks 5.5: Yours truly topping out on the 2nd pitch of "Jackie", which goes at 5.2:

Awesome Matt. The Gunks are where I learned to climb 13 years ago. There's no better place to crag in the US in my opinion. No doubt the ratings are stiff; I like to call them real. I went home last year and climbed at the Gunks thinking I had progressed to being a solid 5.8 leader and got a rude awakening on a 5.6. Did you happen to experience High Exposure? I don't think I've ever led a finer moderate anywhere.

My thoughts exactly. WA ratings are soft (and I'm one of those horrible Mounties). I wonder if those "Mounties" Builder was talking about weren't just your average internet sprayer... WA is the only state I've been able to lead a 5.9. On the east coast I'm a 5.7 leader at best. Where are you from on the East Coast Drederik?

Turns out I have pneumonia so you don't need to kick steps or take pics (but have fun nonetheless). The decision of to ski or not to ski just got a lot easier...

If you do the Brothers Wednesday it would be awesome if you posted some pics. If the weather actually cooperates this weekend we're really on the fence about bringing skis. Oh and kick some steps too please.

Seth Hobby's Northern Alpine Guides does a great job. I spent 3 weeks with him in Nepal and highly recommend him. He's a local guy (Bellingham) who has moved to Norway. http://www.alpineguides.no/ http://northernalpine.blogspot.com/

Cool. Thanks for the info.

Has anyone been up there? I know the trail is snow-free to Lena Lake. Curious what it looks like beyond that at the present moment. I'd like to ski it next weekend if there's as much snow as I suspect (and perhaps a little more stable than what we're seeing in the Cascades at that elevation). Thanks.

Cool beans. Just sent you and Mark a PM. It was easy to find because it was right next to the water bottle I dropped. baa

Who made it? Pretty sure I picked it up and I'd be happy to get it back to you.

Nice job guys. Saturday was anything but nice - I think we saw you in the lot at 6:00 a.m. What kind of skyhook did you drop? I was 1 of the 4 people on TC and GD on Sunday.

There's also a vibrant discussion on NWH: http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7990688&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

If updates are what this thread is about here's one for you: A bunch of birdwatchers are trying to get the whole project stopped, just like they attempted to do (rather unsuccessfully) with the Mountain Loop Highway: http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20110507/NEWS01/705079906/-1/NEWS

Anyone who says they've never had the urge to shake a child has is either not a parent or they are lying.

We haven't *won* by any stretch of the imagination, but I like this video/speech: [video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRfXfi5Kapw

That's a good point Ivan but... While they may have been convinced that they were right that would be at a loss to provide evidence of any specific actions that those murdered on 9/11 did to bring them harm. Acts of war should be directed at specific targets that create a threat to a just society. Assuming that Al Qaeda is a just society (as it would seem necessary to this argument) what sorts of threats did people working in the World Trade Center pose to their way of life? I suspect it's clear to everyone the threat that Osama bin Laden posed to our way of life.

I'm sick of all of the PC bullshit that I hear complaining that people shouldn't have been celebrating in the streets; that it somehow makes us no better than the people shooting guns in the streets of somewhere in the Middle East after 9/11. For those who find it hard to comprehend let's be clear: We aren't celebrating the death of 1,000's of innocent people who were murdered by a terrorist organization led by one man. We're celebrating the death of the man responsible for the murder of thousand of innocent people because he can no longer mastermind these plots. Go smoke a flipping peace pipe and STFU.

Righteous. Nice work fellas.

Anyone who has ever had a kid has had the thought of shaking the hell out of their screaming baby once or twice. Most of us don't do it. It sucks that he did and I'll bet it has haunted him every day. I'm not saying it's right, it just sucks that now two people are dead. RIP.