Off_White

I'm just keeping you honest John. Truth be told, I'm unfamiliar with the area and don't know about the history, routes, or situation, so I don't really have an opinion one way or another. You sound like a committed local, and I've certainly enjoyed your TR's here, so I wish you well in working out your local situation. Unless you're using a Ouija board to consult Alex Lowe, I'm uncertain who you're referring to. Presumably the TR problem's FA party? As far as ASCA goes, their site states: "The ASCA returns classic climbing routes to their original danger level by replacing deteriorating old fixed anchors, usually bolts, with modern camouflaged gear. We do not add bolts to make climbs "safer." Climbing is inherently extremely dangerous." I'm sure this is their policy, and if bolts they had supplied were used to retrobolt TR problems it was not with their consent. They supply hardware to volunteers who do the work, the ASCA does not have complete control over what individuals do with the hardware they supply. Were the removed hangers stamped ASCA? If so, if you have proof their hardware was misused, you should take it up with them, I'd guess they would be very interested to know. If you register a complaint in a reasonable manner and get a snarky dismissive response, that would be some evidence of failure to follow through on their policy, but I don't believe your accusation has merit at this time.

My friend Micky Judge shot his younger brother Jamie dead through the bathroom door, just playing a game. Must have been 9th grade or so. My nephew accidentally shot his best friend, and while it was just a pellet gun, the friend did indeed lose an eye. I don't own a gun because I've never been in a situation where having one would make anything any better. I'm okay with living in a society where you get to make your own decision about that sort of thing, and I certainly know lots of responsible gun owners, but I don't think armed populace makes the US a safer place.

I thought I'd read on Supertopo that it was you who did that?

Nah, not that good Steve, I'm just using the power of googlebots to call out a deadbeat client.

This should be a great show, and Crusher tells a helluva good story. Here's a recent pic from his ascent of the Candy Stick (lifted from Supertaco)

I've heard of a legitimate instance where not wearing a seat belt actually saved someone's life. Does that mean we should all not wear seat belts? That's the difference between anecdotes and statistics.

j_b, that's climbing content! Way to go dude

One fun detail: I was happy to be wearing my helmet while on an unplanned bivy on Dragontail - while shivering uncontrollably I didn't hurt my head banging it against the pointy rocks in my little bivy coffin.

Post a TR of something you've done lately in one of the regional forums, but think of it as telling us a story and showing some pictures, not establishing a resume. This isn't 8a.nu and there is no scorecard, but you can use the Partners forum to find folks to go climbing with. Be honest about your skills & objectives. Oh, and have fun, it should definitely be fun.

[video:youtube]

I expect DMM will take care of business in a serious and direct manner, and Mountain Gear is a really great shop, points to those guys for checking things out.

Spammer's been banned, someone else will have to take out the garbage though...

That's the coolest thing I've seen all week, love the photo looking down from the second belay.

Larry, I recommend you take up climbing to provide a little distraction...

By request then... [video:youtube]

So, I schlepped a bunch more stuff off to merge with the argument in Spray. Knock it off, I'm out of patience.

IMO - then different standards might apply. The same standards do not apply to the Gunks, Smith, Index, or Rummy, for instance. I'm not a local, but as usual, I think that history and majority rule is the norm. With minor variations - but what they all have in common is this route wouldn't be acceptable at any of them. Wherever I May Roam, 5.9 at Smith, has forty some bolts in five short pitches, and its massively accepted. There's no lack of bolts & fixed gear at Index. I'm guessing Jim meant Rumney? That's a total sport area, and the climbs are all short. Yosemite is full of routes with 8 fixed pieces per pitch, aid or free. I've spent little time at the Gunks, but it doesn't much seem like Beacon, there's nothing six pitches long, and fixed pins are not unusual there. I don't see the facts on the ground supporting your statement.

I'm too busy with work today to spend much time with this, but here's a couple points for you Nitrox: Yes, I don't like you, but that was not an issue in your short ban. "Cunt" in particular was recently discussed by mods and admins, and it just doesn't fly, it seriously offends any number of people here in a way that other insults don't. If you run a stop sign in front of a cop that doesn't like you, that pre-existing antipathy does not get you off of your moving violation in court. Yes, it cuts both ways, and its not just you. Hugh Conway, while trying to be funny, blew it too and has a little time out. I'm quite serious about it, and a second offense is bye bye. No, no poster, including j_b, complained about your post. It was strictly my initiative as I read through the thread. Sure, it could be argued that I made an example of you, others have used that word in the past. Whatever, its zero tolerance now, and all are on notice. Yes, insults are pretty rampant in spray, and they are not the province of any particular political or social ideology. I can only ask that posters try and use a little judgment. Calling someone a "faggot" or some such variation on that theme, where an underlying bigotry is the foundation of the insult, really isn't okay, and I may boot someone over that. I personally find it offensive, and there is support within the moderators for making that sort of thing an actionable offense. I'll keep you all posted. Threads calling out individuals in an insulting manner are pretty objectionable, and yes, I found the one you cited regarding yourself offensive. I was on the fence regarding doing something about it, and certainly would have acted in your favor if you registered a complaint. As it was, given the abuse you regularly dish out, I let it ride because I see you as having a pretty tough skin. The question of "JewPR" is a different thing. "Jew" is not an epithet, unless you're using it as a verb in describing a financial transaction. It's a descriptor of both an ethnicity and a religion that is commonly used within and without the relevant group. Choada Boy's bias is against the country of Israel, and as opposing Iran does not make one an Islamophobe, opposing Israel does not make one an anti-semite. Yes, these things do get looked at and considered when they come up. I'll freely admit that enforcement of civility issues here is pretty inconsistent, dependent on the degree to which any individual moderator has the time and intention to deal with things. Really, self editing and self policing is what works best here, I'd like you all to contemplate doing a little more of that. I've spent an hour I don't really have to spare dealing with various issues around here today, and I'd like ya'll to just let this thread die out. It isn't here as a platform to continue carrying on with your insulting banter, it was a notice of a behavioral standard that will not be tolerated.

If there is one hard and fast rule on this board, its No Messing With Someone's TR. If you want to kvetch about this route, there are several other threads where you can do that. Joe, if you want to lobby Ivan about another thread, please do it elsewhere or via PM. If anyone wants to complain about birds, or Beacon, or just complain in general, take it elsewhere.

Well, given that most of us probably have friends who've died young, getting older doesn't seem all that bad an alternative.

Kid, we all got it coming.

Jay, why are you unable to make a moral distinction between different modes of transit? Do you also have a hard time picking a side in the American Civil War?

*sigh* There you go with the reality check bummer again Hugh. I reckon you've got it figured out correctly. I don't think either side has changed their positions much. Still, I personally weary of the name calling, especially if its just artless blabber. If you're gonna poke someone with a stick, at least make an effort to put a clever point on it.

Kevin, I know one of your kids is 3, but that doesn't mean you have to ask questions like a 3 year old. What do you think the answer to your question is?

It does nothing to advance your arguments, I think you should reconsider your policy on gratuitous insults.