Off_White

I don't really have an opinion in this drama, but I like Bill's perspective. I do have a Mad Rock story to share: I bought a pair of their approach shoes on the sale table at my local bricks & mortar, The Alpine Experience in Olympia. This is my normal motif for buying shoes: what's on sale and feels good on my feet. These shoes (don't remember the model name, they're discontinued anyway) weren't flashy, no funny neon thingies, no big logo splashed all over, they were just comfy and functional. A year and a half later (already a pretty good period of time for shoes) I notice the beginning of a delamination at the heel, and looking closer, realize the sole is almost worn out; the dots are just about flush with the base of the sole and the rubber has worn thin. This isn't surprising given the age of the shoe, between working in the field as a general contractor, rural life as a sheep & goat rancher, and the usual climber out-and-about hiking & scrambling, it's pretty rare for a shoe to last beyond the one year mark. The remarkable bit is that the uppers are still in great shape - stitches aren't blown, lacing system intact (though it needs one new lace), heel tabs still there, not worn thin at the ball of the foot (my wide feet + bunion put a strain there), and no impending blowout at the upper & midsole seam. You all know the ways in which an approach tennie die. So, I emailed Mad Rock, mailed them the shoes, and they resoled them and shipped them back gratis. Looked like the resole work happened in LA, not Vietnam. It was great to get back what is now shaping up to be my favorite approach shoe ever, and consequently I've got a bit of a soft spot for Mad Rock. On the otherhand, I do appreciate that ClimbX talks about factory conditions and that this issue plays a role in their business decisions.

What Rudy said. I understand, this is about real issues, but being in the Climber's Board is sort of like being in your mom's living room, so lets all be adults.

I hear New Mexico is just full of low hanging fruit in terms of first ski descents.

Hah, I know what you mean. My wife and I listened to it on CD while driving across country, and you can't just skim over those bits when someone is carefully reading them aloud to you. The book certainly made the hot flat middle of the country much more bearable.

Thank's Prole, that Harpers article in your first link is what I had in mind when I made my statement. K-guy, it's worth taking the time to read. I stand by my statement.

Uhm Dru? It's fiction. A serious man has no business reading fiction. Genre fiction at that, hmph.

Now that's funny. My son has access that sort of trickery at Univ of Michigan these days, wicked cool things you can do with it.

Did someone say Dragon Tattoo? [video:youtube]

April? Don't go rock climbing in the backcountry unless you're training for the greater ranges. Do ski the Sierra High Route if that sort of thing is your gig - its not mine but friends have raved about it. Up and over Lamarck Col is a great suggestion too, but I know it would make me grumpy to not be able to start at North Lake. Where is that road open to April anyway? Going to the Valley is an excellent idea, just excellent.

"boney" wasn't supposed to be the word for Feb 2011 Nice pics & TR, the closing line was icing on the cake.

What, you got a mouse in your pocket?

TTK's got a valid point. If you're a fundamentalist Christian in the US and you want to go fight god's holy war, the US Military is a perfect outlet for that desire, and is more than happy to support that interpretation. Maybe we should all be thankful for that, because focusing instead on heretics close to home is part of that whole Sunni-Shia thing, and that is just grim.

wide brush stroke maybe, but I'd vote for Rob for Pope.

I think pretty much anyone on this board with over a 1,000 posts has already told TTK to FU at some point. Seriously though, a bit of the "sound advice" was administered in the form of a dope slap to a stranger rather than sympathetic advice. You can do that with your buddies, or if you're Dan Savage writing his column, but it's beyond the decorum expected in this particular forum. I should chide Mr. Woodsman for getting upset? Hell, he posted in this thread because he was upset to start with. It's funny that this particular spray branch was started as a joke, but in fact it filled a need. The description of the forum is no longer tongue in cheek.

You're wrong Rudy, this is about the only forum where you're SUPPOSED to be able to do that. This isn't your wrestling team, its more like your 4 year old daughter's tutu wearing soccer club.

"If this bus bathroom is rockin, don't bother knockin" eh?

Hmmm, that sounds familiar. Britain: Where you can fall from the top to the bottom of a mountain in only a thousand feet.

Nice TR Yeah for pictures!

the argument for returning wolves to the Olympics I think the major opponents would be elk hunters who feel like they already have enough competition, but the peninsula doesn't have the same kind of ranching economy and history that have made wolf reintroductions so controversial in other western states. I wonder what it would do for the goat overpopulation issue?

Those kind of sleeve bolts are vastly inferior to the Powers 5 piece - I've had to replace a few of those myself and it was shocking the condition they were in.

So, when listening to the SOTU speech (sorry Larry), did you too experience the brief hopeless wish that just once we didn't have a president who felt compelled to pray for America?

I've always thought some of that stuff on the shore of Lake Superior would be interesting to check out...

Mark, I think OlympicMtnBoy has some good advice for you. Clean aid is a worthy thing to pursue. Raindawg, your rant is a total strawman. Damage from pins, not bolts, were what drove the original clean climbing movement. I wouldn't expect you to champion the driven steel, but perhaps your stance is merely anti-bolt rather than pro-clean-climbing, eh? Last May I got to climb in The Valley for a week and did Serenity Crack, the poster child for pin scar damage, for the first time in over 30 years, and I'd sort of forgotten just how shocking the damage is. The year before I'd done The Nutcracker for the first time in a similar length of time, and was surprised to find pin scars on a route that was notable for being established all on nuts. Pins do much more damage than bolts.

Go easy with the tough love guys, our man in Ohio knows what he needs to do, he's just looking for a little encouragement, not a beatdown for bad choices made.

Still Darin, you've got to give them points for not altering the aid climbing experience for others on those routes, isn't that a change in the norm for El Cap free routes? I'd agree that Lama's proposed tactics aren't different, but the area is. Most folks accept that different areas have different rules. You're making some interesting and thoughtful arguments in this thread.