Off_White

It is, and historically he's asked that his real world and this one not be visually connected. I'm assuming a polite request from him to any picture posters would be respected.

Fred is still in the climbing game to the best of his abilities, while ol' Yvon just surfs and fly fishes and bitches about climbers.

yes

MF'ing 206er

No, the one I have is by Dave Kennedy and covers much of the county. That one you found on Amazon is news to me, kind of funny to slice the game that thin that you have a separate guide for "sport routes and top ropes" but I suppose it isn't anything that Raindawg hasn't predicted. If you're just going to The Gorge and Santee, Messier's pdf guides will do you fine, they're well enough done. I do think they predate his meltdown, you can find ample threads about that on that San Diego Climbing site and RC.com if that sort of thing entertains you. If you want to go to Woodson (highly recommended btw) you'll want something comprehensive and printed; it's a big hill and route locations can be rather convoluted. Paul, I think I'll be in town Sunday evening, I'll do the PM thing with specifics.

Doing anything but the trade routes in Zion for a first wall is a reasonably bold proposition, thanks for the TR.

That's from the new Sears catalog isn't it, part of their struggle to adapt to the modern marketplace? There's something about the needle placement, which is the same in both clean and stained bra photos, that just screams "Art Director."

That free guide is alright, though the author, Art Messier, is the wack job who's been chopping other peoples routes and engaged in assorted other thievery and vandalism. He's a rap bolter himself, and has retrobolted and renamed a number of routes at Mission Gorge, so it's not an ethical crusade, but rather some manifestation of psychosis. As an alternative, Chris Hubbard has a bunch of free topos available here though they tend to be more artsy, watercolors and such, and not as informative as Art's work. Those pdf guides of Art's had disappeared from the web for awhile, anyone interested should download and cache a copy while they can.

Well Serenity, let's create a little scenario, shall we? Let's say you're taken prisoner by a couple of Hungarians who trade you in for a bounty from a country you may not have been all that fond of to begin with, maybe France? Those Hungarians claim they saw you talking to a guy who tried to cut the toe off a DeGaulle statue with a hacksaw. So, the French secretly lock you up for years without any charges or opportunity to defend yourself in a court of law. They torment you with cold, sleep interruptions, throw your MMA scrapbook full of autographed photos in the toilet, and blast high decibel Maurice Chevalier at you 24 hours a day. Lets say they do this for four years, then decide to release you back to the US, hoping you'll be put into the Federal Pen on their say-so. Lucky for you, Bush was still president, and he wasn't all that fond of the French either, so they let you go. Do you think you might now have an axe to grind against the country that ruined your life, locked you up while your wife married some other guy and disappeared with your child while no one had any idea where you went? Hell, even if you had been childhood friends with that guy with the hacksaw, I bet you'd want to make those French bastards pay. As posited, Gitmo is a great recruitment tool. If they weren't our sworn enemy before we locked them up without charges for years on the uncorroborated evidence of random scumbags and tortured them, odds are they're our enemies now. Abandoning our principles, we have done great harm to ourselves. Hell yes close Gitmo now.

Werner's book is well over 30 years old, more of a collector's item than a current guide. I've got a San Diego County guide from just a few years back if you want to borrow one Paul. I can always ship it to you, though I might be in your town within a week or so.

thanks for saving that Mark, the cheap asshole deleted his posting by the time I got around to looking at it.

A cursory reading suggests that JMO is trying to have a civil political debate, the kind where you read and consider what someone else has posted, rebut their positions and acknowledge their points.

Yes, I've seen their plywood cams. I thought they had used them on the wide pitch on Ixtlan, but it turns out Jorge used scissors jacks and and wood blocks (according to the guide book) to aid that nasty thing. The plywood cams were pretty cool though.

Is this the bit about the Brit complaining that his presents just weren't special enough?

Not to mention you need a head to drive a warthog.

I thought it was because Americans are losing their sense of irresponsibility, that maybe borrowing all that money based on hypothetical value to live beyond your means may not be sustainable in the long run.

that made me laugh out loud...

Lots of fun to be had down there. Mission Gorge was the squalid little crag I learned to climb at, I loved it fiercely. Santee is amazing bouldering, mostly edging, but you'd do best to have finger calluses that go rat-a-tat-tat when you drum your fingers on the formica table at the mexican restaurant. Woodson is the be all end all of crack bouldering, though in fact lots of things are high enough you'd want a top rope. Boomer Beach offers sandy landings for bouldering on grainy chossy sandstone, but the ambiance is great. El Cajon Mountain mostly got developed after I left, looks to be mostly good sport climbing. There's a newish place, Eagle Mountain I think, that's supposed to be splendid. That's most of the visitor worthy stuff within 40 minutes of downtown, but there's more of course for those obsessed. The whole county is just full of rock, but the chaparral vegetation is comparable to the worst bushwacking the NW. I could cough up some .pdf guidebook stuff if you need it Paul.

Yes, the Tieton is not the climbing area you're looking for, move along now.

[video:youtube] This one's for you, Porter

That's a pretty fascinating and huge photo archive Bob, thanks for that link.

I found some dates for your homies Dawg... And on topic, I'm with the "style matters" crowd, I think how you pull off our essentially trivial pursuit can be a source of both inspiration and entertainment. For me personally though, the bottom line is that survival trumps style.

For some reason, when I saw this picture I thought of Kevbone's assorted guitar threads and felt compelled to share with ya'll Edited to add: John, that vid's a gem, thanks!

While not the biggest fan of pulling plastic, I'd have to say that looks pretty cool, both being outdoors and the overall height would add a lot to the fun quotient.