ivan

Bammm! Nailed it! LOL!!!!! this is why i've so far succesfully resisted the 3-fold cry for dogs (n' chickens) in my house (we already booted the cats for shitting everywhere)

hey, my name's paul and this is between ya'll! perhaps i shoulda said "gender" n' not "partner?" i *hate* the homo-huddle

what about old people? can you cook them in a way to get the old muscles tender enough? approach as for flank steak - long/good marinade of vinegar, olive oil and garlic, grilled & sliced into thin strips, w/ a phat ass sauce (the yardstick of civilization!) of chives, horseradish, and bluecheese! red wine of course...

Ivan, meet Prole. hey, i'm all ears - dude, prole, how do you justify your existence? kk, why don't you go first? shit, okay, i will - i speak very slowly to stupid people and try to get them to buy into basic notions of democracy and grammar for 100$/day, plus basic healthcare and a pretty tight vacation schedule - i could also just be considered a public day-care provider for people old eough to kill you and steal all your shit

dude, did you see "idiocarcy"?

I think you had it right before - "earning your keep" could be construed as "from each according to his ability". All the people you mention did meaningful things. There is also dignity to someone who picks fruit, farms, fishes, cleans toilets, collects garbage, etc. It always chafes me to hear some POS talk about some job as if it is "beneath him" (meaningless). my point is most people in thier day and age would have considered their contributions to be meaningless i haven't met any folks that i can think of who consider any work "beneath them" - my brother was an armor officer and 2 time iraq vet when he got out a few months ago and took a bullshit security guard job at mcminamins - he's pretty damn normal dude, and who's gonna starve if being a janitor will pay the bills?

chickens are puppies you can eat w/o the neighbors fuckign freaking out babies are great w/ bbq sauce btw, racked by the half-dozen on spits - lotza cumin, lotza salt, lotza cayenne, dig?

hey, at least you had the appropriate partner to alpine-spoon w/?

i love those places - they're usually where i poo - there's an unholy large number of them around harden flats outside the yosemite entrance right now

out in colorado, roudn'bout the metoer shower time last week, i got to see the gallilean moons of jupiter and the sea of tranquility through a giant reflecting telescope bitch, so beat that! 'course, i didn't take any nifty pictures, but i doubt i could have operated a camera in my intoxicated state anyhow

that might be true KK, but i've never met him (or you for that matter) - prole, what the fuck do you do? speaking of "earnign your keep" - do the following guys qualify? thoreau when writing "on walden pond"? hillary when clibing everest? jeus when wandering through the desert for 40 days n' nights? or buddha during his long ass break under the bodhi tree? mohammed in the cave? joe smith digging up his norht 40 looking for golden tablets? tvash's point about valuating labor is valid - it's an impossible/semantic/value based judgement that defeats us - let's resign ourselves to supporting everybody and resolve to just speak ill of the free loading bastards on the interwbes afterall, how many doorknob relatives do YOU have? as family, you grin n' bear it, no?

it's also just good common sense to support the "lower class" -when they get riled up, heads roll! true, tv and the interweb are amazingly opiatic, but sooner or later a critical mass will still form

I'll bet I consider "meaningless" what you consider "meaningful" - and vice versa. you guys should check into nihilism

the question was food, not housing, but okay i'm still w/ you - i repeat the above: society, be it the government, churches, groups of concerned citizens, businesses, whatever, needs to ensure taht all humans have all their basic needs secured: those being security, food, shelter, etc. in return, society, comprised of all the elements listed above, has a right to expect that individuals will make some contribution themselves. government is like the president - the buck stops w/ it - if people are starving, homeless, w/o healthcare, the responsibilty devoles upon it to meet the demand - it is reasonable to expect that in return the government will demand of its citizens material support, which usually takes the form of taxes as a side note, how many skinny homeless folks have you seen? most seem pretty thick to me - food in the era of agri-business seems to have totally banished starvation - healthcare is the new frontier, ironically includign treating the diseases associated w/ overeating

"utopia" means "nowhere"

what about the rich elderly? or a mentally ill person who inherited a fortune or managed to make one prior to become too ill to function? i'm w/ you - once you get down to details, the issues become so complex its really a hell of a lot easier to just throw up yer hands n' say "everyone, no matter what" - okay, you've been a dickhead your whole life and done nothign other than climb rocks - but you've hit 65 now so you can live off the governmetn tit (at least as far as healthcare goes) from now on please don't misunderstand me as being simple-simon on socialist/communist healthcare - i'm aware those who lived under it didn't like it - a hybrid system doens't seem doomed to failure - a meaningful free option, based somehow on having worked for most your life, if you could, but still private options that can enhance the baseline option

funny - the anti drug-legalization crowd makes its stand on taht issue - they say it is governmetn's place to be ma'n'pa n' protect you from your own bad decisions - if they were consistent, they'd be for universal care as to the second point, yes, bill, though i don't think it's "government's" so much as "society's" obligation to see that all are fed (and that extends to healthcare i reckon - it's just that folks donate money/food/service to soup kitchens, not so much to meaningful healthcare for the poor, sick n' downtrodden) how many people starve to death in the usa? how many die b/c of no/shitty healthcare? it's a rhetorical question of course, but i seriously doubt the former outnumber the later.

not that i'm calling you or anybody a communist, or even that i think every element of communism is utterly hopeless, but your quote above can't help but remind any decent history teacher of karl marx's, the father of communism, famous quote: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" communist/socialists have it right, i agree - everybody should have basic healthcare (i'm not talking tit jobs or super-radical disease treatments now), and everybody should have to contriubte if they want to enjoy it (but naturally that can't include the elderly, the mentally/physically ill, the young, etc. - at which point we're already making so many exceptions it becomes hard to stick to the "you have to earn it it" mantra w/o seeming a wee bit silly)

words like "truly" are what send the crazies running for the exits w/ "death panels" on their lips, since it implies judgement do we all remember what this guy said about judgement?

words like "truly" are what send the crazies running for the exits w/ "death panels" on their lips, since it implies judgement

great post KK - i like when i can agree w/ you - doctors need to make a living, and a good one comeasurate w/ their herculean efforts in eduction, but it is fundementally fucked to make healthcare a for-profit enterprise - drug dealers in the hood don't want you to stop buying the drugs, they want you hooked for good, preferably on an ever-increasing slope of willingess to pay, pay, pay somehow we need a system that provides affordable, universal healthcare that doesn't remove the incentive for bright people/organizations to study medicine and innovate new treatments, preventions and cures for disease

can we agree on 2 basic notions? 1) some how, some way, healthcare needs to be cheaper 2) everybody should be covered, all the time

to oppose obamacare is not to oppose health care... to oppose obamacare w/o supporting anything other than the status quo, which relegates a large chunk of our fellowman to low quality/non-existent healthcare is retarded

maniacs! way to give the Almighty Bog the Big Finger!

well he sure as fuck didn't surf it!!!