Bug

I am encouraged by the fact that Obama has proven himself to be quite intelligent (Harvard) and socially concerned (social work in the hoods of Chicago). He also came from a hard working family. I think he has way more to offer than we have so far seen. The difference between a half-wit like GW and Obama being in office will be demonstated in more wokable long term policies. GW et al, had no sense for the long term. Just look at the economy, Iraq, Afganistan, and the fact that Osama is STILL out there somewhere. We were suppposed to be in an out of Iraq and Afg. We were supposed to go after the people who attacked us on 911 "regardless of borders or governments". We were supposed to be able to invest our Social Security $ in the stock market to reap the benefits of de-regulation. DOH! Bad President. Bad party direction.

If GW decides to cancel elections in teh name of a financial crisis or an attack from Iran, your handguns and hunting rifles aren't going to be worth squat. Stand up, get counted, and get shot. Then be forgotten. Just like the millions that Stalin and Hitler killed. That being said..... Banning guns is not a good idea but it is very unlikely to happen anyway. The political capitol required to push it through both houses would not be worth the toll on capitol needed to pass other bills. It is similar to GW using the Religious Right to get elected. He really didn't do anything for them. He just said he would.

Just mix Crystal Lite with a cheap wine and don't tell your climbing friends.

I voted last night. Pro-Obama. It is my hope that people who cannot tollerate differring opnions will be banned from owning guns. But that has nothing to do with Obama and his agenda. Gun control is a waste of time if no one can afford one anyway. If you really want to discuss who is or is not in touch with what Palin calls "real America" look at who wants to continue taxing the lower and middle classes at a higher rate than those making $250K and above. I cannot fathom how anyone can still support someone like Bush. Why is that relevant? Because Palin will make Bush look like a moderate Democrat. Let's see, what was McCain's voting record on taxation? Oh yeah, 98% along party lines. Schlepps.

Just sit hard on a ch and bear down.

You fill those cups nicely.

And what is that bra made of?

Climbing is stupid. We should all stay in town, eat out, drink Miller light, and buy chips with partially hydrogenated vegetable oil to eat while we watch the game on weekends. Drone on.

Still in the afterglow phase.

Yeah. Sorry. At my age that is not a pretty visual.

Rome, Sicily, Istanbul, Athens, Naples, Pompeii, and Florence. Should have taken rock shoes.

They tried to ban me but God intervened.

Wow. That is cruel. Well OK. But why do you keep going back to complaints that characterize Catholics but have little or nothing to do with Protestants? That is revealing you know? Yeah we did. We also visited Istanbul and visited the Blue Mosque and San Sophia. The Grand Bazzaar was cool too. San Sophia was my favorite. Built in A.D. 532 to 537 (that is pre-catholic). Huge and well polished. Incredible archtectural feat. Yeah we couldn't find anyplace to have sex. Too crowded. But the art collection is incredible.

Number of spirits in my belief system: zero. So much simpler. You are talking to yourself again. Did you miss me? I didn't think about you once. Not even when I visited your nemesis, the Vatican. But don't take that personally. One thing I noticed about all the old buildings I visited, they would be great climbing. Which would be a much better use than housing the riches they have gathered in the name of God. Next time, I am taking my shoes. Now that is the spirit.

Thanks. Cliff, honeymoon. What's the difference? Throw a new job in there too. I am bumbed I missed the ropeup. It is my only chance to re-live those highschool days of getting puking drunk.

Great TR! I learned to climb on those rocks. Wise decision on the Afterburner. What you said about Shoshone - 5.8+ but better be a solid 5.9 leader - is true of the afterburner too except that you should be a solid 5.10b leader to do that 5.10a route. And as you pointed out, you are on your own out there. Good pics. Thanks for the mini vacation.

HEY!!! WTF? I thought you were going to postpone this until after I got back.

When I go out, I see about the same number of people as always if not a little more. Most of the climbers I meet do NOT post on CC.COM (maybe 60%) and many of them have never heard of it. But I am definately square in that group of climbers who have slacked off in recent years. But in my case, it is not because of the internet but due to other outdoor activities with kids.

Get over your ignorrance and reread what I said. Your ignorance is revealed by your unwillingness to recognize the value of different beleifs in other places. Reread what I said because I did not anywhere say that I beleived witchcraft was real. So you think we should strip them (isolated, uneducated, illiterate, without medical or social services) of the only way they have of storing home remedies, social prescriptions and tradition in general. What would you replace it with? How will you instantly convert these peoples? Go back to your couch and TV. You have not thought this one out. So...let me paraphrase you...you say that witchcraft, curses and what-not hold sway in other belief systems in like say, Africa? That's great, but this here, is the good ol' USofA and fairy tales *should* hold absolutely no sway here... I really don't give a shit about other cultures at the moment as i see ours imploding right now and am more concerned about that...convert these people?? I'm not trying to convert anyone...I'm just sick of the sway that the religious right has over politics when it should hold about as much sway as islam, or bhuddism, or any other flight of fancy...namely, the amount of sway should be zilch... so when i see some African witch hunter doing some mumbo jumbo pseudo religious blessing on a possible leader of this country, i kinda get all riled up, see?? So, i'm gonna like do some bashing...and maybe i'll go home and stick a pin into a barbie doll that i call palin... Why didn't you just say so?

You see what you want to see, here, Bug. What you're seeing is ignorance bashing, not Christian bashing. As the Buhddists say, ignorance is the root of all evil, and we should all be intolerant of it. And as for my ignorance, I assure you, I'm as well versed in Christian philosophy as you are. But you're still a Christian so you've got to play for your team. We understand that, but don't even remotely pretend like you're in a position to pontificate above the fray. I am in the fray. It's called spray. Who here is not pontificating? You are not in a better position to pontificate just because you were in Africa once. You obviously had the tourist bus experience. Your ignorance is based on the assumption that you can replace a societie's norms with some scientific structure. Fine. How are you really going to pull this off? Meanwhile, these people who beleive in witchcraft (out in the bush. I agree with you on Palin) have no other alternatives. Or are you going to list them for us?

Get over your ignorrance and reread what I said. Your ignorance is revealed by your unwillingness to recognize the value of different beleifs in other places. Reread what I said because I did not anywhere say that I beleived witchcraft was real. So you think we should strip them (isolated, uneducated, illiterate, without medical or social services) of the only way they have of storing home remedies, social prescriptions and tradition in general. What would you replace it with? How will you instantly convert these peoples? Go back to your couch and TV. You have not thought this one out.

All Christians are alike and all atheists are alike. That seems be the primary assumption at work here. Like I said to Tvash, there is ignorance and intollerance on both sides of this arguement. Reading through this thread, I see a lot of christian bashing and beleif bashing. It's nice to be an american and not have to consider other cultures. Witchcraft etc is very real to some people outside the US. They have nothing else to turn to. There are even LOGICAL reasons for them to store their cultural knowledge in that form. But that is a separate arguement. I have not heard any christians here standing up for Palin. Am I wrong? I certainly hate the thought of her being elected but brace yourselves. She has the same appeal as Ronald Reagan who ruled from naptime. GW is another example of figurehead leading. Palin is REALLY SCARY because she might get elected due to that charisma but she would manage directly and that WOULD be scary. But in reality, GW is going to suspend the elections until this economic crisis is over. Meanwhile, PLAY NICE!

Thanks for the imagery tvash. While I side with you against Palin, your remarks are no less based on ignorance and intollerance than are hers. Never-the-less, I enjoy reading your posts. If only Kaskadkakdkadkadk would come back to balance you out again.

“It’s mind-boggling the things people will say and even the things I will say,” says Catherine McIntyre, a 38-year-old medical billing specialist from Houston. “People who’d never say something horrible in real life will do it again and again and again online. It’s like the behavior of crowds, or those mass beatings where no one gets blamed because everyone’s at fault.” No. Everyone is not at fault. Only the assholes are at fault.

"I'm not here This isn't happening." They can't beleive they were dupped so badly. "People are more easily taken by a big lie than by a small lie." Once they swallow the big lie, they have to follow the turd down the hole to beleive it is a turd.