Bug

Jamin, You sound like a danger to yourself. You seem to understand that. But I am not clear that you are aware of how much danger you subjected other people to. If you were roped to me and threw yourself out of control on purpose to test my ANYTHING, I can't guarantee I would remain rational. That said, I haven't become irrational climbing in over 30 years. People get hurt walking to the bathroom. Tendonitis or a twisted ankle can disable a climber for months. Why would you puposefully risk doing that or worse, to someone else when there are ways to learn the skills without risking injury? Impatience I suspect. A lack of compassion perhaps. Maybe pure ignorance. All of the above? You might as well kick them in the crotch as hard as you can. It would be less painfull overall than getting two broken legs above the boot because you decided to test their arrest skills without a backup anchor and with crampons on. There is nothing "nice" about that. It doesn't matter how fun it is to hang out with you if you get me killed. Am I perfect? Hell no. When I was 19 and climbing in the Valley, I was way too reckless. I finally took a 60 ft grounder that changed my attitude and that of the belayer I bounced past. The situation I was in left me with no doubt that I was about to die for the entire fall. 3 or 4 seconds is a long time to consider the stupidity of not learning and using skills that can practically guarantee your safety. Since then, several good friends have died climbing for reasons that could have been prevented easily. 20/20 hindsite for sure but why repeat their mistakes? If you have any inclination to practice some patience and limit yourself to conservative practices while roped up, I would go out with you to teach you some alpine safety skills and practices. You would have to understand that you don't do something I tell you not to while we are roped up or to any of my equipment. I simply do not want to see you die and/or cause someone else's death if there is something I can do to prevent it. PM me if interested. Don't bother if you are not interested. I will not debate this or participate in this thread any further. I'll drive.

Thanks for the TR guys but that's a different forum. Yuk, yuk, yuk,

Nerves grow back very slowly. Wierd as it may sound, a good way to get your hands to increase circulation, especially good for rainods, is sit in a cold place under-dressed with your hands in a tub of hot water. It trains your body to react to cold body temps by increasing circulation to the hands. Like I said, wierd.

Hey Beck! I think I have your MSR pot grabber from the ropeup. PM me if you are missing one. bug

Life is not that simple. Uncompromising people are not always "totally honest" about their abilities or intentions. Some people just do not pay attention to what they are saying. And so forth. The point is, "use caution with this guy." He has made one trip with one climber who reports a lack of good sense and no signs of having had any remorse or consideration for the concerns of a teammate. Since I put in a post encouraging this guy before I knew anything about him, I feel responsible for balancing that out. The post that "trashed" him was not originally posted openly which displays some common sense compromising. The entire thread should try not to trash the guy without some constructive criticism. That would be, "listen and learn from others". The summit will be there next time. The skills to climb more chanllenging summits will only come with the patience to learn the skills that prevent injuries and deaths.

You miss the point completely. The newbie was unwilling to listen and work it out. I have been climbing for a long time and still listen and learn. Those who do not, worry me. A lack of willingness to compromise or collaborate on the part of a partner is enough for me to end a climb. I have seen what can happen when one person thinks he or she knows what is best for a group or team and will not compromise. Usually the whole trip becomes a fiasco in an effort to pump the ego of one idiot. Or worse.

The "Old Days"?! Mallory attempted(/climbed?)Everest wearing less than most of us would attempt Rainier in. Probably would have made it with a more experienced partner. That sucks. It was not cool that he died. Come to think of it, I don't remember anyone ever referring to someone's climbing death as "cool". Where does that notion come from? What are we supposed to say when there is a death? "That was stupid"?

Never mind.

PM sent about pants

So much for Newbies being spray free. Frigin posers. How many ignorant questions did you all ask when you were starting out? Or were you born with crampons on? This forum is FOR questions like this. Clearly, the answer to glissading with crampons on is "NEVER!!!" The post directing you to Accidents of North America was a good idea. I love to read accident reports and still, after 30+ years of climbing, frequently learn something valuable. Ask more questions and ignore the idiots. PM me if you want.

Watch out for avy slopes and go out and epic dude. Maybe you will not get the first ascent but if you are careful you will have a great adventure.

Be aware that the heavy holiday traffic can trap you on I90 for hours.

I look forward to your 2007 review! Very nice.

Nope. At North Bend I90 was a parking lot. We went up the MiddleFork and hiked in the rain. Garfield was covered with snow and slush. There may be some ice up there someday soon if the temps drop 10 but right now it looked like a glazing. Otherwise uneventful. Merry Christmas!

http://www.avalanche-center.org/Bulletins/Northwest/avalanche.php Avalanche danger is going to be high at Snoqualmie pass Saturday. I will still go out somewhere near there since I have to pick up my girls for dinner on Christmas eve (Sun). But the chances of getting all the way up to the east ridge are slim. There are other ridges and valleys to access.

http://www.avalanche-center.org/Bulletins/Northwest/avalanche.php Avalanche danger is going to be high at Snoqualmie pass Saturday. I will still go out somewhere near there since I have to pick up my girls for dinner on Christmas eve (Sun). But the chances of getting all the way up to the east ridge are slim. There are other ridges and valleys to access.

Hello. I am planning a trip up into the Alpental valley and if avalanche conditions permit, up to the east ridge of Chair peak Saturday and Sunday. Conditions should be pretty good. I will be on skiis and will dig a snow cave. This will be a non-technical trip. Since my buddy has decided to visit his parents rather than sleep in a snow bank, I find myself going alone. So it occurred to me that there might be some people who would be curious about how to do a few of the things that are required to survive in the mountains in the winter and even have fun. If you want to come along, send me a pm or reply here. I am pretty easy-going and flexible. Cheers, Bug

RIP. All my best to the families.

I need to get out and try to get some gear in the snow. I will ski up to the base of Chair pk on the East ridge and check out conditions. May climb or not. If there is some ice to play on, I will do so though I am not planning on a rope at this time. If someone REALLY wants to climb Chair with a rope I could be game if there is any ice built up on it. Probablilty is low. I am not into a long dry tool experience with no pro. The cornice at the top of the East ridge coming off of Chair should have some safe places to dig a snow cave or two. Bring your favorite party beverage.

Eventually, everything will be regulated and taxed. Overpopulation is the real problem. Acceptance is lame. Rebellion will be squashed. We will all die in prison for owning an ice ax.

Phil, You have ventured into a discussion you are not qualified to persist in. These people on the mountain are well qualified climbers with all the skills needed to get through this alive if anyone can. Climbing with any electronic device is adding weight and it is the weight of a device that may or may not work in extreme conditions. You can argue all you want about how to keep it warm and dry and functional, but until you have been in a nasty storm like they are in, you will not know what priorities determine what you choose to spend valuable calories on. For instance, did you know that putting snow in a water bottle and trying to melt it with body heat is going to cost you more in calories than the marginal benefits of hydrating? But even that is missing some of the valid points put forth here regarding the style of climbing chosen by experienced climbers. Statistically, the style used by these climbers on Hood has been far more successeful than the style used by most accident victims on Mt Hood. The fact that someone got hurt is a known risk and a choice made by each climber who steps out the door. If I get hurt or killed in the mountains, my loved ones will know that the quality of the life I lived was very high by MY standards. To have lived a different life, never having been in the face of potential catastrophy and pulling through by using carefully aquired skills, presence of mind, and sheer perserverance, would be a prison sentence. My hope is that these men will pull through with minimal injury and loss of quality of life. But if they do not fair well, anyone who knew them, or know any of us who consider ourselves "experienced climbers", should know that this was a possibility that not only was worth the risk but defined the path our lives have taken. We would be drab shadows of who we are today had we not found this path. This says nothing about what other people choose. As for the rescuers on Mt Hood, they are proceeding with great care and will not risk more than their experience condones. They are choosing their own path in this endeavor. And again, if it were me they were searching for, I would want them to know that they should be careful to the extreme. My choice was not intended to lure them into danger. My path is not theirs. My relatives know me. They may be disappointed that more is not done but when all is said and done, they will deeply respect the effort made by all. This effort is exagerrated by the news coverage in terms of realative cost and time. The statistics have been posted repeatedly on this board showing that far more hunters, hikers, and snowmobilers find themselves in need of rescue than climbers. It is almost always during a storm. The danger to the recuers is only partially diminished by not being above tree line. A storm at any elevation means avalanche danger, Hypothermia, air travel restrictions, and all the communications problems you encounter in mountains and valleys. Let it rest. You have asked your question and it has been debated. At this point, you either get it or you don't. The families of these men are watching this board. My guess is that, they get it. The men they are worried about have their respect and support. We need to be respectful toward them now* more than ever.

Just pay off Vinny.

This has very interesting implications for the condom industry.

More info and pics. Comeon Norm, write up a lengthy review. You will thank yourself later.

That pic is sobering. The last time I was up there was 27 years ago. It was August and there were only three or four other parties up there.