Bug

Yah shuehr. Dem Germans kin drink. But der not sehry cute. Big ankles.

Uuuuuuurrrppp!

Take charge. Bring your dog. And your cards.

Bring gear to sell. I'll buy whatever butane you have.

I hauled the big pig for FIVE women all summer. They were all smiles and so was I.

And drink LOTS of water with that Ibuprofen.

Well done. Great TR and Great climb. Gary, you are shameless.

To Bolt or not to bolt. Beware of the polarity as you may well loose friends in the debate. Here are the generalized ethics of bolting that I like. You are all welcome to your own opinion. 1. Bolting in a wilderness area should be limited to routes that need at most, intermittant bolts to safely connect otherwise traditional lines. My reasoning is the reasoning of the wilderness legislation. "To preserve some part of these lands in their pristine condition for the enjoyment of future generations." We do not know what methods for protecting routes will be developed in the future. Leave something boltless for the next generation just in case, just like we were left the wilderness by people who worked very hard to establish it. 2. Bolting outside the wilderness should be limited to otherwise unprotectable routes and those cases similar to my wilderness bolting assertion. 3. Established routes should be left alone. If an existing bolt "needs" to be replaced, this should be done by someone with considerable experience after discussing it with a wide range of local climbers. Safety vs. fun vs. ethical consideration of local traditions should be considered. Orbit is a good case study. I do not use existing bolts on Orbit. I feel very well protected using all traditional gear. Most or all of the bolts would probably not have been placed if modern gear were available to the first ascentionists and the later climbers who placed those manky old 1/4 inchers. I think there should be absolutely no more bolts on Orbit. This discussion was held in another thread. It just seems like a good example to cite here. 4. Dissing sport climbers or bolting in general is shooting yourself in the foot. The more climbers we have, the more likely it will be that our sport will be considered in public land use policies. The more people that participate, the more power we have and the more abuses we will see. As with most things, the really blatant trangressions are committed by very few. That said, I have no problem chopping bolts next to cracks or otherwise inappropriately placed (existing routes, especially my own 1st ascents, Rap placed bolts in lead bolting areas. Other cases may exist.) Did I leave anything out? Oh yeah, the original question. Different areas have different ethical traditions. Some allow rap bolting some do not. Areas like Vantage seem to have very limited ethical standards. That area is as much of a free for all as I have ever seen. Where the masses go so does the garbage and the wider range of transgressions. All this is to say that how you go about establishing a route varies by area if you go by tradition. Personally, I do not see the need to place a bolt on rap when there are so many lead routes left in the world. A bit of rain was always fodder for day of recon. But if that is what you fall into, I do not care, as long as you stay within the guidelines stated above. Your personal approach is permanently recorded in the rock (although a crowbar and a little epoxy can make it seem otherwise). Whatever the case, everthing you need to know is pretty easy to find out by getting out and climbing with a wide range of climbers. Otherwise, kindergarden rules apply. Be considerate.

I don't fu-king know where she gets that sh-t.

I have a seven and nine year old. After the first two years I just decided to get out again. I have toned it down a lot but I still start every summer by free soloing Icicle buttress.

I hear about it too but afterward they love to brag and talk it up like they were the guides.

That dirty rock! I have done the first few pitches three different ways and the next couple up to the notch two different ways. There are probably numerous other 5.9 and 5.10 ways to go also. The one who had the most fun did the best route.

I am trying to get that weekend freed up but there are birthdays and the sacred soccer games. Remember, no drinking or cussing in front of the kiddies.

brilliance from a llama! Please leave the bolts as is....there is plenty of gear above and below these 1/4" rusty bolts. And I do believe there is plenty good belays above the bolts Selkirk mentions...just stretch the rope a bit more... Ditto. Once it starts, it is a slippery slide. I have never trusted 1/4 inch bolts old or new. And I have always found bomber protection on Orbit even at the exposed corner (2 small wires are bomber). All the belays I used took good pro and I clearly remember thinking how amazingly good the natural pro at 45 meter belay stations was. Ignore the bolts.

About three weeks ago, I did what you are proposing except I made it all the way down to Asgard pass to camp the first night easily. In fact I took a nap at the col to let the heat of the day pass and started up Dragontail about 5PM. There was significant rock fall on the Colchuck glacier and I spent a good half hour scoping out a semi rock free route. Just left of middle worked but it was melting very fast and would be a different story now. The snowfield on Dragontail was in good shape but that too was melting rapidly. Those blocks in Mountaingirl's photo are worth taking seriously. I would not go under them unless it was early AM after a cold night. Even then I would be moving fast. There is probably a way to do the traverse right now but it would be a lot more dangerous than when I did it. Good luck!

What's wrong with bugs?

Dude. Nice pics! I had to wipe off my screen after looking at those couliors.

Stay where you are. We talk funny.

After summiting Dragontail, head south along the base of the cliffs. When you get out near the end of what you can see, there is a scree gulley that goes straight up to a notch. Take it. The other side is a gulley with loose rocks here and there and a couple steep parts lower down with loose rock above them. Be VERY careful! It will be a fun trip.

Not down the glacier. You would have to go back the way you came. It would take quite awhile. With non-climbers, I would give the round trip from Asgard to Colchuck to Asgard most of a day. There is not an easy way down from Colchuck. The west face might work but even that is very steep in places and drops you into Mountaineer creek. With the glacier melted down to ice you are pretty much out of easy options. The Dragontail approach is by far the least technical. Good luck!

I went up the Colchuck glacier Sat the 6th. It was hard ice with a little slush on it here and there. Not real steep (45+) but not a good place for "non-climbers". I then continued up Dragontail via the "obvious gulley" and then continued along the ridge crest or just east of it on ledges. There is an "obvious gulley" on the south end of the ridge that you could trudge up and then descend the gulley I climbed up. Watch for loose rocks on the steep sections if you have a group.

Way to go guys. I met you on your way up Ass Passer. Did you see the bear on the way out? He was a 200 lb cinnimon with a fly bitten butt about a mile and a half up form the trailhead.

One thought about coming out here for winter sports. The snow is often heavy and prone to sliding. Take extra care to stay out of avalanches.

By far, the most likely danger you face is the sun. Take serious sun glasses. If you have ski goggles, you may want those too. 50 block sunscreen used frequently is a must.

Check the route conditions page for Rainier. Be ready for the snow to be melted out to hard ice in places. Sharp points would be helpful. I would not trust poles to stop me on that. I have a long shaft I use for dog routes. Helmets on the Emmons are good if you fall in a crevasse or slide fast.. Not much rockfall.