Terminal_Gravity

quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: I saw that dude in Canmore this summer. He says hi and invites you back to climb in the Himalaya soon. my sinuses couldn't take it! [ 10-04-2002, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: Terminal Gravity ]

Andy Selters in the Himalayas. He was the leader of the climb. He never encouraged the group to go up because we had a weird inversion layer ( I think ) that formed an ice fog from about 6am to midnight. We spent 6 days at 17,500', bored, hungry and practicing cravasse rescue in sub zero temperatures. It was clear every early morning, but nobody had the motivation to move up. In retrospect I bet it was clear just a few hundred feet up. I was the youngest member of 12 people and was only invited as the token rock climber, so I had no pull or experience to motivate the others. When we finally did move we pushed to hard to make up time, but really had no chance at the summit and faild far short. The experience wasted five weeks of my life and 6 grand...my college money for the next year. It turned me off to mountaineering for several years. To top it all off Selters is, by far, the stinkiest guy I ever met. Kitty Calhoun must be the toughest woman in the world for spending a week with Andy on a portaledge with one sleeping bag!

It's a crying shame for the world to lose a great person like Göran Kropp. My deep condolances for the friends and family. My hats off to you Erden for being able to discuss these issues so soon after your trauma. I am grateful that this discussion has enabled all of us to reflect on our practices and hopefully reduce our risks. When I first read your account,Erden , my first thought was...static rope??! As allison mentioned not all static ropes feel that different from dyno's. I have a bit of sailboat experience and there are static ropes that have even a softer hand than most climbing ropes...though you would not find them in a climbing store. I have to say that I think this is the most plausible explanation. It would be an all too easy of a mistake to make. I have stated before on this board that I think it is an error to completely trust any gear...and been chastised for it. Gear can fail for sometimes crazy reasons and with truly horrible and troubling results. That being said we all count on gear to vastly reduce our risk, as do I. This accident/tragedy needs to serve as a reminder to all of us to never waiver in our diligence. It might be out of place for me to share an experience on this thread, but it is a great example of a cam use. Maybe one that will help us justify continued climbing. In the late 70's I was in Yosimite heading up to attempt NW face of Half Dome. I was commited to do the route clean; but with out pins, my rack was a bit anemic. I ran into this guy named "Ray" who was peddeling these really weird looking pieces of pro. They weren't cheap and I was VERY sceptical. But he finally convinced me after a demo to buy one. He claimed they were going to revolutionalize climbing. So; dangling on my rack was a single #2 hard stemed friend. I really didn't expect to use it. About 6 pitches up, climbing on a 11.1 mm rope I found myself looking at 20+ feet of steep layback ahead. The crack was flared without any positive holds, palm grips most of the way. Laybacks were my weakness and to make matters worse I couldn't find any pro no mater what. They were the beginings of pin scars but absolutely nothing that would hold a nut. I tried playing with the new fangled piece and managed to get 3 of the 4 cams to stick in the shallow flareing crack. I really didn't know any better but it was the best I could do. I put a long sling on it to help with the fall line. With out much confidence I went for a fixed pin at the top of the crack where it bent back into an undercling. As I was attempting to clip my hand failed and I pitched over backwards. Surprise, surprise, the cam held with a high impact rope (by today's standards) on a 40-45 foot fall with a factor of about 0.4 ! I wish that Göran had been so lucky. Best wishes to all of you - steve [ 10-06-2002, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: Terminal Gravity ]

I use Hagan 130's Titanium edged with a big fat tip and a narrow waist. They work for me, but i'm a marginal skier on a good day. They turn very fast for narrow colouirs. the thing I like best is they weigh about 3 pounds for the pair with 500's on them.

quote: Originally posted by Greg W: TG- Any snow over in the Blues? Or the Strawberry Mountain area? GW- Probably, but I have no firm idea. ODOT has a web cam at Deadman Pass that might give a clue for the blues

quote: Originally posted by rbw1966: Tires equal gear in the NW. If'n you can't get to the mountains, you can't do any climbin'. My house (caretaking 300 acre's rent free, did I mention that I hate spending any money other than on trips, drink & gear?) is at the gate of the only reasonable access to a 1000 ft north facing granite buttress that has year round ice and grade 4 rock. I can get to the mountains with out tires Sorry for the un-abashed chest beating. live small - climb large (move to where the climbing is)

Dear Mr/Ms Chocolate, I would like to hereby publicly apologize for refering to you as "Poo Boy". I have always found your posts to be inciteful and entertaining. I meant no harm. I really have only one beef with you. Apparently I made an erronious assumption. I assumed that by "Sexual Chocolate" you were refering to poo. I figured that you had a fixation with anal sex or were gay...not that there is anything wrong with that. Again, if I assumed that "Sexual Chocolate" was an avatar name and not your christian name, forgive me. Who am I to assume that Mr. and Mrs. Chocolate did not name their new baby "Sexual". Silly me. Or am I way off base here? Is it the "Boy" part of "Poo Boy" that you found offensive? Should I have refered to you as "Poo Girl"??? Oh Yeah, The one beef, you might be wondering. I just can't seem to get that stupid Morrison song out of my head. It's a beautiful night for a m... Aaarghh. help Cheers

I believe that is horsecock & cheese on a great northern snaffle hound rug. Don't spill the wine.

Not the cascades (thank god ) but they are in OR. This is the second night in a roe that we are getting heavy snow!! In fact there are 2 inches and accumulating at my house and it is dusting at the brewery. The only down side is I've got to get some new tires I hate spending money on anything but trips, drink & gear.

Anybody else suspect that CC.com's own Moondancing Poo boy is none other than Homophobic Trask? That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it until proven otherwise. [ 09-30-2002, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: Terminal Gravity ]

quote: Originally posted by texplorer: So . . soloing in the dark, on a climb you have never been on before, after you have had a few beers, and no headlamp, might be dangerous. Well, I never would have guessed? Yeah; I did that once at J-tree on a 5.3 after flashing 10's all day when I was 19. Young dumb and full of cum/ego. I am not sure I have ever been that scared since. It is amazing that some of us survive our youth... I drove alot crazier than I climbed.

quote: Originally posted by sexual chocolate: "I finnally realized that I was takeing it all too seriously." Really? I'm wondering.... Hey I'm not meaning to be an ass here, but here's the way I see it: you felt badly about some advice you gave, you didn't want to feel badly (human nature), couldn't really make sense of it so you opened it up for peer review, got some feedback you liked, some you didn't like, chose to go with the one you liked, and presto, you allevaited some uncertainty and could now go on with a clean conscience. What would you say if the poor bloke followed your "advice" and fell to his death? I mean, it's not like you were telling him/her to take a walk in the park, or to go climbing after getting proper instructions. Your advice carried a clear message, hard to misunderstand: "maybe try soloing." My advice: Soloing is incredibly dangerous! It is not advisable therapy for hypsiphobia! It can kill you! It's a shitty way to die! It can kill you faster than simply getting near TG's ass! Sexual Chocolate: Thank you for the psycho analysis. ( don't take that as sarcastic, it's not intended that way ) I think that you have a point. We all, to some extent, want to have approval by our peers. As I have said, I would not want to be responsible for giving advise that led to harm. I did indeed reflect on my posts, and I appreciate Peter Puget's post because it was a catalyst for those reflections. I think to some extent you took my "don't take it to seriously" quote out of context...or maybe I did not express my thoughts clearly. I strongly feel that this board and the postings should not be taken to seriously. I have fun on this forum and I have fun in the mountains. But I take climbing and climbing safety very very seriously. I don't like to fail in the mountains. To me dieing while climbing would be the ultimate failure. I would much rather slip in the tub and crack my head. Climbers might chuckle, but atleast they would not say " I knew the mountains would get Steve in the end. He was way to bold." My wife and daughter don't worry when I'm out because they know I am safe, prudent and often turn around if things get to dicey. I stand by my stance that free soloing with the right attitude and done with focus and for thought, at a comfortable level has the possibility of helping with the "fear of leading" issue. It worked for me. I really don't think that done appropriately free-soloing is more dangerous than many other common mountaineering pursuits. The main reason I practice some rock free-soloing is to hone my mind and focus for alpine routes where subjective exposure might make the use of a rope more dangerous. I don't want to freeze up mentally if I have to turn a few loose & exposed fifth class moves on climb when gear would not otherwise be needed. My first posting on this thread was really not about free-soloing. It was about posts and the possible ramifications. I strongly feel that it needed to be brought up. From the number of thoughtful responses it is clear that it is a good topic to discuss.

Between mile post 74 & 75 on Hwy 84 there is a nice columnar basalt wall above a pool off the Colombia lakes (I hate dams). About 80 feet high, if my memory is correct. It looks as solid as the area gets from the road. Has any one climbed there?

What is the proposed date? How many kegs should I bring??

quote: Originally posted by sexual chocolate: quote:Originally posted by Terminal Gravity: I'm glad you piped up, Shakey. Your views were exactly those that I hoped would be the prevalent ones. I can't say why, but when I read your initial post I was pretty sure you had a depth of experience and felt that my view might be worth the read for you. I also assume that you and everyone else on this board (unless they profess otherwise) are responsible for their own decisions in the mountains. That is clearly the way it should be. Cheers. I thought by the tone of your initial post, you were having some misgivings and/or doubts about previous advice you had given. This post makes it seem as though you knew all along how you really felt, or at least how you WANTED to feel. I personally feel it's kinda lame to throw anything out there, irregardless of possible outcomes, and then try to act innocent, implying everything is really the other person's responsibility. Well, in the end it is, but we're ALL responsible for what we do, and that includes giving dangerous advice. And yes, advising someone to go soloing is dangerous advice. I've soloed alot, but would never recommend it to someone I don't know, especially the context in which the advice was offered. Just my opinion, for which you asked for. SC, After PP's original suggestion I reflected on my advice and my posts for quite awhile. Yes, indeed, I had misgivings about irresponsible posts...I would never want to post something that could create a dangerous situation for someone. PP sugested that I had. It took awhile to reconcile my thoughts. I finnally realized that I was takeing it all too seriously. Climbers are ultimately responsible for themselves. Except for flagrantly bad or malicious advice, it's all good to disemanate and let the reader decide what's right for them. That is the respectful position that I would want for myself. All that being said, I felt like this should be discussed. I also wanted to hear from the majority as to weather my conclusions and attitudes were prevalent. So I purposely tried not to lead the discussion when I started this thread. So, if you still think I was being lame, Sexual Chocolate...KISS MY ASS! Oops; maybe you'd like that.

It is my understanding that you now MUST go to Mendoza for your permit. That has only been true for the last year or two. Mine was checked 3 times on the vacas side...once by some pretty serious looking dudes with machine pistols. Be forwarned.

Sobo, Check your PM's

I'm glad you piped up, Shakey. Your views were exactly those that I hoped would be the prevalent ones. I can't say why, but when I read your initial post I was pretty sure you had a depth of experience and felt that my view might be worth the read for you. I also assume that you and everyone else on this board (unless they profess otherwise) are responsible for their own decisions in the mountains. That is clearly the way it should be. Cheers.

Also: water is now readily availible at vacas. There is a pipe coming out of the morain about a 1/2 a klick from the main camp. The camp doctor said that it has been tested and is totally pathogen free. So drink up...and remember for every liter of Rhum you drink you must choke down an extra 3 liters of water.

I'm sure Gene is right...but I only know the vacas side. I did not experience the mulas zoo on the other side. Food & some supplies are readily available at plaza of the cows now.

I was there last Jan. My main advice is... don't let the hoardes of people streaming off the mountain sharing their petty excuses of why they failed and why you should turn back now disuade you from doing what you want to. The climb is not that tough if you stay smart, keep hydrated and allow enough time to acclimate. The failure rate is very high because it is so popular being one of the seven. Very few attemptees really have much experience. Also make sure you and your partners are equally motivated. I did not use mules so I can't help you there. Bring less food and more mony on the climb than you think you need. You can buy stuff in base. Burger & fries go for about $12. Wine is a much much better deal than beer. $8 per liter for a delightful little red versus $5 per can of weak insipid warm oxidized industrial carbonated piss water. IMO. Also, don't sell Mendoza short. I would rather spend time there then in Santiago any day, it's a great town...and it should be alot cheaper now with the currency woe's. If you want more beta, call me 541-426-0158 cheers - steve

Congrates to all of you. It sounds like a good trip...sorry I missed it. - steve

Good post above, Alex. Any newbies have a comment on this subject. Jon; Tim??

quote: Originally posted by Peter Puget: But I am afraid we have moved far afield from TG's initial post on this thread. PP There are some great posts on this thread. The subject of soloing is an interesting one to me. But, the subject of the responsibility to others when posting advice I think is an important issue on this board. I have often stated on this board that I think that glacier travel without a rope can have an acceptable level of risk for a very experienced climber under certain conditions. I doubt very many would un-equivicably disagree. I would hate to think that a newbie would prance off across a glacier saying " I want to be like TG...If that fat old fuck can do it; so can I!" I think that it should be stated that nothing on this board should be taken as gospel. Every climber is ultimately responsible for their own actions. I also think that within reason, every poster should feel free to post any opinion they have. [ 09-24-2002, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: Terminal Gravity ]

Originally posted by Stefan: Can you direct me to the thread in question Terminal Gravity? I can't...I am way too much of a computer gumby and can't find it...maybe someone else can. I thought this was the internet. Everything on this damned computer thingy should be taken with a grain of salt. Exactly, my point. Be responsible for your self. Still, I think Peter brought up an interesting point. [ 09-24-2002, 09:04 AM: Message edited by: Terminal Gravity ]