Terminal_Gravity

quote: Originally posted by Ropegun2002: This day in mountaineering history - 1978; First women's Annapurna expedition summits. The book is good. I'd love a T-shirt Didn't a bunch of those women die on that trip? I forget how many. I was a punk kid in '77 and met about a half dozen of them at Stoney Point in Chatsworth. I completely missed the sexual conotations of their shirts at the time. I gave some of them pointers on how to solve some of the boulder problems. They were trying to hone their rock skills, if I remember it right. (I'm sure I was high at the time) It was a wierd and troubling wake up call when I heard of their deaths.

JKreuger is going to try to pick up a keg of my Bar X Stout in Portland on Friday afternoon. Drink a couple for me! Somebody still has to scare up a tap. Anybody have one?

quote: Originally posted by texplorer: TG- free beer? I might have to start calling you fred. Tex, You could call me a whole lot worse then "Fred"...But I don't get the connection??

JK, If you could pick it up by 4:45 on Friday - PM me for the details...leave you phone #. As for the empty, just get it to Portland & I could figure a way to get it at a later date. Cheers - steve

Oh yeah, you would have to pick a style...Stout (6.4%), IPA (6.7%), Strong Golden (5.6%) or a British pub style Bitter(4.0%).

Unfortunately, I'm not going to make it to the rope-up. I have a climbing opprotunity this weekend that is way to good to pass up. I was really looking forward to meeting all you people (and maybe climbing some). Oh well. Anyway, I am still willing to donate a keg of beer for the event, if you want it. Somebody would have pick it up in Portland. You would have to get your own tap and assure me that I will get the empty back. B-rock how about you?

Excuse Me! Belaying with an eight does not twist the rope at all. As long as you do it properly and pull a loop through the small end and lock it into your main 'biner. I also think that it provides a good amount of friction and will not slip (much) in any but a hard fall. In that case some slip is usually a good thing. I would only used a forged 8...and they are readily available. All of the above being said assumes that an idiot is not using the eight in the rappel mode for belaying; which I think is implied in some of the above posts. I use different devices in different situations. I certainly don't think that an 8 is the best for all cases but it is good for most. The one thing I like the best about it is that you can feed rope very fast, maybe faster than any other device. This is particularly useful when belaying a leader you can see just before he/she pulls rope for the clip. An aware belayer can make it seamless for the leader and still keep the rope tight for all but the last second. An 8 demands a little more attention than most devices, so it is not best for a beginer.

I have been known to under-estimate difficulties and over estimate my abilities in the past. So I post this with a bit of trepidation. The yokum is high on my "want to climb soon" list. (Tex, maybe we should talk.) Mattp, is the choss really all that bad? I've scoped the route pretty close and it seems do-able even with choss showing. Maybe I'm being nieve or just plain stupid, but I was considering a late November ascent, thinking the choss would be firmed up. Does anyone know if it has it seen a summer ascent? (Kind of an ironic question, huh?) Spray me if you think I'm dumb. I'd rather be embarassed and alive then...

quote: Originally posted by texplorer: I also found that when I put runners over my shoulder inevitably that hand was in the crack and I would have to find some way to switch hands to remove a runner. Tex, when I expect the need for a quick placement, I remove the sling from around my shoulder and just let it hang from my neck before I am locked into a hold that would be troublesome to switch around hands. If I want a really quick clip, like on a dicey layback, I clip the biner through the rope ahead of time and use a second biner cliped some place else handy. Then once the pro is set it's a simple matter to attach the sling to the pro. In the worst case senario, when you are pumped (or blown out) and fearing failure...when form and style stop becoming issues; you can pre-clip the rope and your harness loop with two 'biners on a long sling. After setting the pro you can decide to un-clip the harness loop and clip the pro quickly OR...admit defeat and pull the sling up the rope, clip the piece and hang from the pro. None of these tricks work with a QD.

One of my early lessons and part of my safe pro mantra in the life and death struggle against the ultimite evil of gravity is..."It is a rare piece that does not require a full length sling." I'm sure that very concept saved my ass on more than one occasion in my impetuase youth. Never forget; gravity kills. Fear it. I suspect that the proliferation of sport climbing (with the appropriate QD on a bolt), the greater cost and hassle of full length slings and the counter intuative nature of a long sling ( and therefore a longer fall, gasp, choke ) has reduced the times that modern climbers sling the pro long enough. I bet this has contributed to pro failure more often than might be accounted for; even with cams.

Thank you for posting, Clyde. One thing doesn't quite make sense to me. Maybe you can help me understand better. Once a dynamic rope becomes loaded, and stretches applying enough force to cause the piece to fail it will then become completely unloaded, correct? (If the piece fails easily the rope will not become signifacantly loaded...so that's a non-issue) In fact along with the climber the rope will be in free fall, if ever so briefly, and have every opprotunity to rebound. I suppose there is something like a speed of elasticity/rebound factor that might be measurable. It seems to me, though that the rope in a completely unweighted senario would rebound very, very quickly. Am I wrong in this assumption? Maybe it's a bad analogy, but I try to imagine stretching a rubber band tight, letting go and trying to beat it back to the starting point. After all, if a falling climber puts enough force on a rope to stretch it as far as we are talking about, he (or she) will have slowed their fall prior to the piece failing. I once fell hard on a top piece ( that I thought was good) felt myself just about bounce, it popped and the next piece ( which I thought was marginal) held. I fell far enough that I ended up brushing the ground but the rope pulled me up a couple of feet and it was clearly loaded with atleast my body weight. In this case my belay was fairly dynamic (may have saved me) but that says to me the rope immediatly rebounded the 2 feet plus the belay slip. I would welcome any enlightenment on this, Thanks.

quote: Originally posted by Off White: What's the trick, do I have to pry off the colon key on my keyboard and re-install it sideways to make the umlaut? On my OS you press the Alt/option key at the same time as you press the "u" and then type the "o". I hope this helps.

I am feeling shakey about the use of cams after this terrible accident. I'm sure I am not alone. Not trusting otherwise trust worthy gear can be a danger in itself. Except in expanding flakes, conventional wisdom is that a reasonably well placed cam is more secure than a nut unless the nut is in a bomb proof slot. I shared an experience earlier on this thread where a cam held against all odds. (old style friend with only 3 cams contacting, in a wildly flared crack on a 40+foot fall with a stiff rope and a marginal fall factor) Knowing that the rope was static would dramatically reduce my trepidation. Again, I'm sure I'm not alone on this. Erden, you don't owe us anything here. I recognize this. But I would very much appreciate knowing what type of rope was used. Thank you in advance. You have my best wishes, as does Göran's friends and family. [ 10-09-2002, 08:27 AM: Message edited by: Terminal Gravity ]

quote: Originally posted by David Parker:

quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: Has anyone climbed willis wall in a day Maybe the caveman has the right idea for you BSer. In all likelyhood you might not have to trouble us anymore with your stupid ideas after that attempt. This is a really good time of year to try it.

quote: Originally posted by B.S.'er: Sleeping in the back of the car at a trailhead blows. What the hell??! I love sleeping in my car pre or post climb What blows about that. Furthemore what's with the acclimating comparison. That's just stupid. I live at 4300' next to a trail head...should I spend a week at sea level before comparing. Speaking about compareing, that is just egotistical competition. If it is important to you, so be it, but don't try to drag others into your warped ideas about the value of mountaineering. 2 years ago I spent the night (in my car) in Death Valley, drove to Whitney portal pre-dawn and then summited Mt. Whitney and made it back down to the grill intime for Burgers. BFD; I was acclimated to 7,000' prior. It was my own thing, I enjoyed it and was not competeing against anyone or any record. I knew it was all bullshit anyway but it was fun. Don't try to drag others in to compete with your silly psychosis. Climbing has enough dangers without pushing acclimitazation or endangering innocents by trying to drive home when you are tired just to feed your ego. That's un-mitigated crap. Get a more comfortable car. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

Has Continal drift moved the Cartenz Pyrimid out of Australasia recently?

Pope, Nice little avatar image. Are you holding your nose? Did you get wind of Selters?

quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: I saw that dude in Canmore this summer. He says hi and invites you back to climb in the Himalaya soon. my sinuses couldn't take it! [ 10-04-2002, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: Terminal Gravity ]

Andy Selters in the Himalayas. He was the leader of the climb. He never encouraged the group to go up because we had a weird inversion layer ( I think ) that formed an ice fog from about 6am to midnight. We spent 6 days at 17,500', bored, hungry and practicing cravasse rescue in sub zero temperatures. It was clear every early morning, but nobody had the motivation to move up. In retrospect I bet it was clear just a few hundred feet up. I was the youngest member of 12 people and was only invited as the token rock climber, so I had no pull or experience to motivate the others. When we finally did move we pushed to hard to make up time, but really had no chance at the summit and faild far short. The experience wasted five weeks of my life and 6 grand...my college money for the next year. It turned me off to mountaineering for several years. To top it all off Selters is, by far, the stinkiest guy I ever met. Kitty Calhoun must be the toughest woman in the world for spending a week with Andy on a portaledge with one sleeping bag!

It's a crying shame for the world to lose a great person like Göran Kropp. My deep condolances for the friends and family. My hats off to you Erden for being able to discuss these issues so soon after your trauma. I am grateful that this discussion has enabled all of us to reflect on our practices and hopefully reduce our risks. When I first read your account,Erden , my first thought was...static rope??! As allison mentioned not all static ropes feel that different from dyno's. I have a bit of sailboat experience and there are static ropes that have even a softer hand than most climbing ropes...though you would not find them in a climbing store. I have to say that I think this is the most plausible explanation. It would be an all too easy of a mistake to make. I have stated before on this board that I think it is an error to completely trust any gear...and been chastised for it. Gear can fail for sometimes crazy reasons and with truly horrible and troubling results. That being said we all count on gear to vastly reduce our risk, as do I. This accident/tragedy needs to serve as a reminder to all of us to never waiver in our diligence. It might be out of place for me to share an experience on this thread, but it is a great example of a cam use. Maybe one that will help us justify continued climbing. In the late 70's I was in Yosimite heading up to attempt NW face of Half Dome. I was commited to do the route clean; but with out pins, my rack was a bit anemic. I ran into this guy named "Ray" who was peddeling these really weird looking pieces of pro. They weren't cheap and I was VERY sceptical. But he finally convinced me after a demo to buy one. He claimed they were going to revolutionalize climbing. So; dangling on my rack was a single #2 hard stemed friend. I really didn't expect to use it. About 6 pitches up, climbing on a 11.1 mm rope I found myself looking at 20+ feet of steep layback ahead. The crack was flared without any positive holds, palm grips most of the way. Laybacks were my weakness and to make matters worse I couldn't find any pro no mater what. They were the beginings of pin scars but absolutely nothing that would hold a nut. I tried playing with the new fangled piece and managed to get 3 of the 4 cams to stick in the shallow flareing crack. I really didn't know any better but it was the best I could do. I put a long sling on it to help with the fall line. With out much confidence I went for a fixed pin at the top of the crack where it bent back into an undercling. As I was attempting to clip my hand failed and I pitched over backwards. Surprise, surprise, the cam held with a high impact rope (by today's standards) on a 40-45 foot fall with a factor of about 0.4 ! I wish that Göran had been so lucky. Best wishes to all of you - steve [ 10-06-2002, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: Terminal Gravity ]

I use Hagan 130's Titanium edged with a big fat tip and a narrow waist. They work for me, but i'm a marginal skier on a good day. They turn very fast for narrow colouirs. the thing I like best is they weigh about 3 pounds for the pair with 500's on them.

quote: Originally posted by Greg W: TG- Any snow over in the Blues? Or the Strawberry Mountain area? GW- Probably, but I have no firm idea. ODOT has a web cam at Deadman Pass that might give a clue for the blues

quote: Originally posted by rbw1966: Tires equal gear in the NW. If'n you can't get to the mountains, you can't do any climbin'. My house (caretaking 300 acre's rent free, did I mention that I hate spending any money other than on trips, drink & gear?) is at the gate of the only reasonable access to a 1000 ft north facing granite buttress that has year round ice and grade 4 rock. I can get to the mountains with out tires Sorry for the un-abashed chest beating. live small - climb large (move to where the climbing is)

Dear Mr/Ms Chocolate, I would like to hereby publicly apologize for refering to you as "Poo Boy". I have always found your posts to be inciteful and entertaining. I meant no harm. I really have only one beef with you. Apparently I made an erronious assumption. I assumed that by "Sexual Chocolate" you were refering to poo. I figured that you had a fixation with anal sex or were gay...not that there is anything wrong with that. Again, if I assumed that "Sexual Chocolate" was an avatar name and not your christian name, forgive me. Who am I to assume that Mr. and Mrs. Chocolate did not name their new baby "Sexual". Silly me. Or am I way off base here? Is it the "Boy" part of "Poo Boy" that you found offensive? Should I have refered to you as "Poo Girl"??? Oh Yeah, The one beef, you might be wondering. I just can't seem to get that stupid Morrison song out of my head. It's a beautiful night for a m... Aaarghh. help Cheers