Rafael_H

NO, NOT A DE-BOLTING LIST. I am trying to find out how much of a problem bolting of cracks is. All throughout many posts there is constant ranting about it, just look 2 posts above. And what, just 2 routes?!!! Bolting is a complex and sensitive issue and I just wanted to help weed out the noisy and unconstructive loud-mouths. (Lucky, why can't people just read more than first 2 letters of the first sentence I am neither pro- nor anti-, just love climbing, all of it.)

1. Amphetamines and Reptiles 2. Gorilla my Dreams 3. ? is this all?

quote: Originally posted by quikclimber: ive been climbing sport for way to long... WA weather is getting really bad, so you have the whole winter to accumulate gear, learn basic anchors, it is not a rocket science, and play with gear placements at Smith. I think you can climb the Pack Animal entirely on nuts, hang on them too. I think it only take some common sense to see how the gear works. Other than that you already know the rest. Just remember that most (what people call) "trad" climbs are cracks so get comfortable with jamming - Karate Crack, Lion's Chair and... don't remember any offwidth at Smith but down in the Lower Gorge. Contact me, maybe we can hook up for Index on Tuesday? rafael@eastwestclinic.com

quote: Originally posted by ScottP: OK, good, just keep it coming, no sense scrutinizing individually because of geom progression of diff threads. Let's get 10. Thanks. (nuts-..., this will keep the topic alive for longer and your inital msg is first) [This message has been edited by Rafael H (edited 10-08-2001).]

quote: Originally posted by nuts_n_screws: Dear anti boltheads... I haven't seen unnecessarily bolted or unjustifiably bolted climbs yet, or maybe less than a handful I cannot even recall. That's why I realy wanted to know what are they trying to fight, ghosts? Sorry to support digression.

List bolted cracks. Those that were climbed without (pre-placed) pitons, and then later pitons removed or stolen. List "unnecessarily" bolted you can actually climb! But don't digress into unnecessary flaming, give us the list, hopefully some will be in WA.

Just read the thread from the beginning. It is easy to see that those calling themselves "trad climbers" are 1. In minority. C'mon people, why so much attention to pope, retrosaurus and officespace? They do need to identify themselves somehow and chose this "trad" thing. So are Godzilla, Exasperator or Double Cross, etc. "trad" climbs and Wham, Loose Lady, Heinous Cling, etc "sport"? What about the Grand Wall? Maybe there is no such distinction after all. It is like comparing thin crack to offwidth or edges to pockets. One can die on any route if not skilled enough to deal with the situation at hand. I think (and repeat many sound heads on the board) the distinction is probably in the commitment level. Easy walk up, a row of routes to choose from, easy to bail out (yes, Outer Space, Serenity Crack and Grand Wall qualify) - sounds like sport to me. 2. Are very close minded and perhaps even worse. I loved chocolate's post, but man, it was apparently too subtle (hee-hee). And pope's (pathetic) essay can't reveal any more inexperience, close-mindedness and lack of vision. (Please, pope, don't tell me about the decades of climbing, it obviously reached your climax years ago). "Old timer" is a bad term, I recently tried to call Pope's old timers and one known "old timer" was offended by such generalization (sorry!) so I had to make a further distinction to ones with and without brains. There are hard-core people who climbed hard then and climb hard now, bolts, gear or alpine (and please, NR of Stuart does not qualify unless you do it in 6 hrs car to car). 3. Mostly poor climbers that are too lazy to improve. Those new to climbing, all you have to do is to go climbing more often to Index, Smith, big sport places and the gyms (no typo) that attract large number of people and communicate with g o o d climbers, learn from their attitudes. Forget the sport/trad thing. All .12-.13 climbers I have met so far are most often doing all these things with equal love and ability. If someone onsights 12 face but flails on a 5.9 crack that is merely because they don't climb cracks often. Means just that. They may not like it, never thought of it, 1000's of things. And yes, some, few, may be afraid of gear climbs. No reason to categorize and antagonize ourselves. "Place the pro on lead" - again, it has been said already, only matters to the first ascensionist and I don't mind having large faces bolted because climbing them is fun and a great school. Finally, bolting proper. The issue surely does exist: yes or no, spacing, environmental impact. Radicals do exist, have their place and are even necessary at times. Just remember, they must be identified and understood as such!!! (Osama guy, eco-terrorists, anti-abortion crowd, etc. Hey, Pope, can I call you a micro- or nano- Osama? ) I, again, agree that approach, cleaning and subsequent tree mutilation from just climbing are so much more obvious and severe impacts. Was scoping routes on Goat Dome and if the route is not climbed often and overgrown it is not at all easy to spot the bolts. So, what's the point? I remember someone on the board asking how they'd be judged by the crowd. Well, this is why I am writing, the crowd is not the ones who shout loudest. Go ahead, participate, let's see if this is the fireplace where capable don't have to prove themselves any other way but by climbing, where reason and honest discussion do help build a community whose voice matters, where beta is not considered spray and.. . on and on. My 23 roubles.

quote: Originally posted by Terminal Gravity: Maybe we could get a fund together to help pay for the cost of chopping bolts near cracks in trad climbing areas. Oh no not another bolt topic! [This message has been edited by Terminal Gravity (edited 10-08-2001).] OK, now list them. Seriously. Only please leave the Vantage Choss alone.

I weighed M10 and Rambo regular myself, pair of M10 is half a pound heavier. I found that it is easier to stand on mixed terrain with Rambo Comps.

Yeah, so many people pay to avoid the harassment. It'd be really great if we all wrote letters AND didn't buy AND parked elsewhere, at least till they come up with some creepy shit to ticket you on the roadside... Please show the opposition, reduce the $$$ in "pass coffers".

Knifeblades - most likely a face climb/section. Keep it that way by bolting where the blades were. Go out of our way to contact the FA/FFA-ists to get permission/advice. It is possible that knifeblades can be hand-placed but will hold falls. If the rest of the climb is gear and knifeblades are solid when hand-placed then better to inform the local community/guidebooks and add KB's to the rack. Re: willstrickland - great comments.

Hey, nolanr, have you climbed that mountain, what's the name of it, uh, heck, the big one, you know, with snow, one can see it sometimes when driving I-5 south to Smith Rocks? I want to climb it but which way is the best? Thanks.

Finished it yesterday. Powerfull! Inspiring!! Excellent!!! Don't expect a conventional stile and just keep on reading. I feel much closer to Mark now and am totally inspired. Carry your own torch!

From the pocket glacier the lower portion looked OK, I saw the pitches shown on http://naclassics.com/climbs/slessemt/beta.htm. I didn't do my homework (and, quite frankly think the Alpine Guide is very imprecise on the approach) so we lost 2 hours in the morning, direct start was out. I think it is not long and worth doing as it had the only actually crag climbing looking pitches. I consider the rest of the NE Butress a choss pile I will never go back to. The last pitch or two don't even seem to be climbed, apparently most take the 4-th class bypass. As we simul-climbed I neither looked carefully nor have a sense for the pitch breakdown, just one big non-stop jug pull. Per Dale's suggestion we stayed as close to the crest as possible. There is a red Metolius - very good shape - stuck there but I couldn't take it out, it'll come out with a nut tool, it's moving but would take more than 5 minutes, so we left it alone. West side descend, ha-ha, just as Caveman said, either know it well or take the Borbon Express Downslide Southwest variation, it is fuuuun!

I used footbeds with La Sportiva Makalu, La sportiva Trango Plus, Technica and even Scarpa Inverno boots. In ALL cases I kept having blisters about one year after started climbing in 1997. One day I had this feeling that I should just try the factory liners. No more blisters ever since. Go figure. The only problem remaining is after a long hike/scramble/climb in any shoe the bottoms of big toes hurt.

Heh, I recently linked the last 3 pitches of Exasperator so now it goes in only 8!

Hey, dear CC buddies, so "Climbing" and "R&I" are not worthy. Are there any climbing magazines worth reading? I agree, any of Florine's so called accomplishments are crap and boring. And that Twight dude is just too arrogant and unsafe. I'd much rather read TR's on CC about scrambling up the West Ridge of Forbidden but the problem is there are no cool pictures on CC. See, if every TR was accompanied by a nice shot, I'd definitely cancel my subscriptions too...

quote: Originally posted by LUCKY: ... But Lucky, you see, there are all those beginner bumblys, bird watchers, hikers, shiny SUV owners there. It's just too clean and pretty and, yak, they sell trendy gimmicks there. It doesn't have the most advanced gear and the best in their fields as employees that can give instant beta and spend their nights studying all the pieces of equipment there are in the store. I just found out that nobody in the climbing dept climbs M10, outrageous, they don't deserve that $8/hour!!! The return policy is such a disgusting rule that every reasonable climber should be picketing at the store demanding to abolish it. How can you even think of shopping there?

Old (and old fashioned) pins on Damnation didn't seem to be able to hold a fall, I never clipped them. 2 small cams can be placed in that chimney section: purple TCU sized and forgot what.

Moon-climbing? Yes, if it's gonna be 82F under the sun...

Well, let's see. It is usually cold in mountains and often rains in PNW, so it's quite possible that there is some snow there. But then again, there may be not...

Leavenworth be it, I am in and will bring those things and some bottled beer as well.

If I make it I'll bring the garbage bags, some toilet paper and some paper towels. I am assuming people bring their usual camping utensils but can pick a small amount of plates. I'll sing too if you insist but only from behind a stone wall.

Thanks to all

Well, does anybody know where to get cable similar to one used for nuts and cams? Thanks.