carolyn

Sounds like some mixed reviews here, with an overwhelming response leaning toward your typical plastic/bread bag. I was curious because on my ob trip I suffered with my boot liners constantly being wet from sweat...and F'ING FREEZING toes. In fact Im STILL awaiting feeling in a couple toe tips. I used liner socks, I slept with my boot liners in my bag, I dried my socks in my armpits and other warm areas of my body , baby powder on the feet - in the socks - boots, etc. The boot liners rarely dried enough...mmmmm...nothing more enticing than waking up to put your warm feet into a wet liner. Anyway, when I returned home, someone at the store I work at was suprised we werent supplied with or asked to bring vapor barrier socks...giving me a brief explanation as to what they do. As I assisted a woman the other day who was purchasing stuff for HER ob trip, I started to reccomend them, but stopped myself...realizing I had never used them. I pretty much explained their function to her and suggessted she contact OB and do some research to see if it might be a helpful item. I wouldnt wish the frozen toe experience I had on even my worst enemy! Personally, after doing a bit more reading and the thoughts you all shared, if I was on another weeklong+ trip in snow again I might consider bringing the little bags they use when you get customized superfeet. They dont really take up any space or weight, so it would be worth a shot I guess. The only other time my feet are prone to unbearable cold is when Im ice climbing. Usually a toe warmer or two does the trick just fine! (although terminal gravity might not agree *hides in the corner*...sorry tg) Thanks for the info everyone! [ 08-23-2002, 11:13 PM: Message edited by: carolyn ]

just curious if anyone has ever used these and how they worked for you...

I dunno, I wear inverno liners in my alphas because they are a better fitting liner for me. I think the issue with the boots was that the liner was too high, causing problems for some people. I honestly dont have any complaints. The zipper thing...Lambone, check on the actual zipper part...does it say ykk on it? I dont remember the exact controversy with the company, but I know that a lot of the clothing manufactureres were having issues with them. Yet, they were bound to use them for one reason or another. Bibler could have been stuck in the middle of whatever is going on as well. I can find out more if ya like.

maybe I should first think about replacing that smelly shirt, huh figger8? Damn thing will never smell like roses again! And no, not worried about losing the prodeals...as long as I can find the time to work the minimum amount of hours at the store. Just dont expect to be there forever and dont want to waste my hard earned, minumum wage money on frivolous schtuff! ummmm...need I say...Bob Dylan!!!!

quote: Originally posted by Winter: At the risk of being crushed with brutal e-mail and accepting the fact that I am making a completely unjustifiable generalization, does anyone see any difference in the way women (the more emotional sex) handle crisis situations in the moutains? In my limited personal experience in the mountains, but my broader experience working with girls/women in adventure settings, I think females often deal with stressful/crisis situations DIFFERENTLY, but not necessarily better or worse than a male. I think its probably easy enough for either sex to get thru a crisis situation...the difficult part is the aftermath of the mind (ie/once you are down from the mountain). When I had my accident I was pretty calm and collected. My male partner was actually the one kind of freaking out. Afterwards, I was the one one who was kind of freaking out...and he is fine (or so he says). When we talk about it now he doesnt seem to understand why I still have fear. Part of it I contribute to the fact that he didnt experience what I did (physically). The other part is just his personality. I try not to generalize it and say, "typical guy", because that is only going to make climbing with him difficult. Instead we just acknowledge, accept and respect the fact that we are going to deal with things differently. I could go on and on about this subject, but I will spare shaky and the rest of you...maybe another thread?

quote: 2. Buy only ropes, no protection. Have a rope for every occasion (ice floss, doubles, heavy toprope). Let your partners worry about a whole lot of gear and its wear and replacement, while you manage 3 or 4 ropes and replace them over a longer period. You see, i had a different theory for the past year and a half...the folks I climb with all have ropes, so why bother buying one myself? . I actually just got my FIRST rope. Im already thinking about another rope. I opted against a few hexes for now...dru thanks for confirming my decision. Cams...going to wait a bit longer...what are the most frequently used (the necessary sizes)? stoppers, just got a set...are there ones I should double up on or is that excessive? webbing...Im learning...each time I get out and find I have to tie a number of pieces together because I dont have anything long enough. ovals...Im either losing them or just never seem to have enough. prussik...simply for backup on rapps...why do I have a zillion of them, all different mm and lengths? Too many people telling me too many things, maybe. What is standard? Or is it really just preference? rapp/belay devices...I just use an atc...any reason to have more than one kind? Okay..I suppose that one I could read about a bit more on my own...but feel free to give input. Maybe I could rephrase my question... what are the things you dont leave home without when you go craggin? climb a long alpine route? multipitch route on rock or ice? (hmmmmm...I think I left that question wide open for some good spray! ) haireball...good thinking re boots. Maybe I will have to think about another purchase this winter.

Im not really sure I have any new tactics to add when your faced with the fear you have mentioned. However, I can relate. I took a good hit from a chunk of ice this past winter. I was very lucky, and my injuries were minor. The mental battle has been quite the struggle, though. I got myself out the next day and a number of times before the end of the season to work on the fear. I dealt with (and still do) the "what ifs". I find myself having those bad visions, predicting what 'might' happen, etc. i received a lot of good advice from the folks here, similar to what they are giving you. Ive had to work a lot harder at this since the beginning of the summer when I had a near miss with a rock (I must attract falling objects ). I hear someone yell out of pure joy while climbing and have to ask them to stop because its making me jumpy. Someone yells "rope" and I cant hear it clearly...my heart sinks. One sign of loose rock and all I want to do is get the fuck up or out! My heart starts pounding, palms get sweaty, and I get overwhelmed with fear and panic. To top it off, I feel guilty when my partners have to deal with me dealing with myself . What I found the most helpful was focusing on WHY I enjoy climbing and staying in the 'here and now' when the fear strikes. I often stop in the middle of a climb and notice the view around me, find the flowers sticking out of rock, or admire the spiders web in the crack. Sometimes I will ask my partner a dumbass question like, "what kind of ice cream do you have in your freezer right now?". Its the little things which help take my mind off the fear and bring my focus back to the moment. I know those might not all be practical solutions while on lead, but you get the idea...and can adapt them to work for you in your situation. Question for you, shaky..then the rest of the folks... You say you dont go for longer routes now because you dont want to burden (or something to that effect) your partners by asking them to take all the leads. Even though you know this is probably not true, have you talked to them about it? do they help you work thru your fears or do you sit with them by yourself as your out climbing? Also, what HAS helped you in the past? Are you still using those techniques? And to the others... Do you notice a pattern in your level of fear? Like...stressed out in other areas of your life=harder to manage fear? When I posted about my accident someone wrote the following which I try to remember often.... "Breathe. Accept. Dont Ruminate. Enjoy now. Seek tomorrow. Dont project the past into the future. Breathe!" I hope there is something that has been said in this thread which helps even in the smallest way. carolyn

Not guilty! I was out climbing and swingin' tools on styrofoam 'ice' in shorts and tennies while at work.... (hows that for a run on sentence! ) The weather was gorgeous here as well! Hope everyone enjoyed the weekend.

Slowly but surely I am beginning to acquire my OWN gear instead of always having to borrow or depend on someone else. What I found tonight as I was marking some old stuff and new shiny things with tape is that some of it is useless...or is it? And, then the thoughts of ..."oh wouldnt this be nice" or "shouldnt I have more of these?" went through my head. I currently do some part time work at a store which allows me to prodeal gear. I wont have this opportunity forever and wouldnt mind taking advantage of it while I can. I need to plan ahead (ie/get ice screws NOW, even if I dont plan to lead for a while). I know gear depends a lot on what type of climbing you are doing as well as location. Most of my interest has peaked in ice, trad, and mountaineering. Soooo..... what do you find as necessary (other than )? what do you find as a novelty (what would you like, but can and have done without)? and what would you consider useless (wasted money)? If you also wouldnt mind explaining why, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks! (I havent heard anyone mention Prince yet! )

Ive never had any issues flying w/my pocket rocket. I usually buy fuel at the other end or mail it to myself if I think it might be a problem finding the proper canister. Only been asked once if I had a stove...the last time I flew out of seattle a few months ago. They were fine with my rocket when I showed it to them and explained there is no fuel in it. Now I DID have a problem with a caribiner on my water bottle in the detroit airport earlier in the year. I emptied two lighters and some change from my pocket in the little container, then my empty nalgene (w/biner attached). *POOF* gone it was! Like the lighters couldnt do more damage on a flight?!!? Whatever!

*Quetico Crack, N.Shore Lake Superior. 5.8+ offwidth...my first experience with this..and probably harder than it should been due to my lack of technique. Awesome views, great weather, good friends, and puzzled me to no end. The only way out was up, so I had little choice but to top out. *R&D Route, L'worth. My first multipitch. Fun climbing with good folks. Did my first REAL fist jam on the last pitch. Boy did my eyes light up! Grandy Mardy Falls, Kama Bay, Ontario About a 2 mile hike in, mostly on a shallow river with a number of short 15-20ft frozen falls to climb. In the end you are rewarded with this grand wall of ice approximately a half mile wide and 150+ft tall. I understand there is another streambed once you top out which brings you to a similar wall of ice. Maybe next year? Silverstar Although limited peak experiences, this one has been my favorite thus far. The views were amazing! Not counting as a climb...I really enjoyed spending two days at the end of the heliotrope ridge trail on Baker. Would have loved to do some seracing if I had more experience or was with another person. Enjoyed the quiet skies(it was sept 11) and a bit of bouldering on the big rock next to the coleman glacier. Nice topic, cavey! Have a great trip!

hmmmmm [ 07-27-2002, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: carolyn ]

[ 07-27-2002, 09:45 PM: Message edited by: carolyn ]

quote: Originally posted by iain: quote:Originally posted by OfficeSpace: ...walk military style? Left right left right. More accurately: left right left left..crap I'm sketchin'! trundle trundle left right trundle right sketch sketch sketch left trundle shout shout shout right... It wasnt THAT Bad! I signed up for this course almost two years ago -before I was able to find anyone to "take me under their wing". Seeing that it was free, except for the plane fare, how could I resist? I did learn a lot of basic skills to use in the mountains which is pretty hard to come by in the flatlands of MN. And, the instructors were good with explaining things in more detail to me and/or giving me more responsibility when we encountered skills I already had. Yes, the large group was sometimes obnoxious. Lots of "strong" personalities and overly ambitious folks. But thats alright... Ive got my quarks that others had to deal with. Most importantly, I got what I wanted out of the experience. Trundle-wise...well I will admit (keep in mind Im a little sensitive to rock/ice fall after some near misses and a hit) that it was difficult when the instructors werent around to convince some of the group members that it was NOT okay to whip rocks off the mountains! where were the snafflehounds then, huh greg?!?!? [ 07-25-2002, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: carolyn ]

quote: Originally posted by Greg W: As a sidenote, Carolyn, we at People's Front for Snafflehound Protection are currently scouting sites for a Snafflehound Sanctuary and have included Minnesota on our short list. Would you be interested in hosting a small contingent of snafflehounds for an indeterminate amount of time? Please let us know, snaffles need our help. Dear Greg W, On behalf of all minnesotans I am honored to hear of your recent request for us to provide a Snafflehound Sanctuary. Seeing that the snafflehounds have been on the endagered species list for well over two years now due to the snaffle-squito's I think we would welcome a sanctuary here in the flatlands. Please be prepared to provide plenty of firearms filled with jungle juice, smokes of all sorts, and numerous types of Terminal Gravity brews in order to keep the evil one's away. In addition we ask that you arrive with pocket rockets (fully lit, of course) on your head so we can be sure you are representing the real "People's Front For Snafflehound Protection". We have had numerous hoaxes in the past and will NOT tolerate them in the future! Please let me know if you have any further questions before we finalize the mission. So....has anybody been able to access the site and see the REAL photos? I would be happy to post some of them on this site, but I cant figure it out (guess Im not as computer saavy as I thought ). Sorry if it didnt work for some of you. Yet, happy I was able to provide some entertainment mid week!

crapola! I guess if too many people try to look at it in a short period of time...like 25! then it cant handle it or something?!?!??! Anyway, if it says its temporarily "shut down" (the site), then try again later I guess. bummer!

Ive never been at altitude AND below zero temps with my pocketrocket...seperately, Ive been around 8,000ft with no problem. Ive also fired it up easily in 20 below temps. I like it because its compact, light, simple, and no maintenance...also because Im a lazy cook and pretty much just boil water, melt snow, etc. I can boil a few cups of water in 2 min or less...very important for the morning coffee However, I did have a problem with it a few weeks ago which caught me off guard. I had left the stove open to cool and kind of forgot about it. An hour or so later I went to light it and... BIG FLAMES...EVERYWHERE! I took it off the fuel canister, shook the stove a bit in case of fuel residue, tried starting it again...no go. Read the instructions and it said something about making sure it was well ventilated if you have the legs open for an extended period of time. Well, shit. I was outside!?!?!? Isnt that enough ventilation? I closed the legs for a bit and tried all over again, with no problems. Lesson learned...you know the models that are sitting around in the stores for you to look at? One match to the stove and *POOF*

We have a great climbing area on the N.Shore, along Lake Superior. I had never climbed rock there before (the ice is all inland, anyway). It was fantastic! Somewhat intimidating while standing on a car size boulder, staring at a great big wall in front of you and nothing but this magnificent, endless lake behind you...waves crashing. aaaah! I spent a ridiculously loooooooong time on a particular climb that I honestly didnt think I could top out on. I dont know how or where I got the strength to finish...but I did. What a great feeling! I also learned what is meant by "sharp rock". My hands are ripped to shreds! One person backed out on finishing the climb. her husband, a non climber, rapped down and they were going to take an "escape" route out. Unfortunately the water was too high and they couldnt get to it...so those of us in my group all learned how to rig a pulley system in the dark. Later, I read in a guidebook that the particular area we were in is the only place in the midwest you can truley be "marooned". Werd! Alpinek (and V)- when I was on my outward bound trip we climbed the finger (?) next to the route you did, I believe. I remember wishing I was climbing that instead...looked like a lot of fun as I watched a couple rapp off the route. Glad you enjoyed it.

quote: Originally posted by michael_layton: I took a deet shower and formed a perimeter of deet around my bivy and it barely worked. You sure you didnt put a hole in your bivy sack from all that deet and give free reign to the bugs? Last year the mosquitos were so bad out here that even the reppellant they use in the army (Jungle juice?) didnt work for me. they are never great out here, but a bit more tolerable this year. What Lambone heard is right...those pesky things like clean, sweet smellin' folks. SO, dont shower before you head out (why would you anyway?). Smoke helps tremendously, as a few had mentioned. Any stuff without deet works well for very short periods of time...you have to keep reapplying. As silly as this might sound, you might want to invest in a net to cover your head. They actually have netting in the form of pants and shirts, too....I havent gone that far. They really do work in keeping both the flies and the squitos away,though. We sell some pretty potent stuff at the store. Usually people heading out to Africa purchase it...you have to spray your clothes and do a bunch of other stuff in preparation. I can look into it more if you like. And Lizard Brain...we have mosquitos that size, LITERALLY!

Hey, Im finally getting some of my photos online and organized from my trip in the cascades earlier this summer. Thought I would share some of them with you all. Enjoy! photos

quote: Originally posted by erik: drul- gustavs is beat.....who wants to han gout with tourons and tupperware floaters...erik Ya, but dont they have that "peach" ? "I'll take a budweiser, please!" (or maybe just a big pitcher of water!)

quote: Originally posted by The Anti-Twight: I'm sure the slides are great, it would just be better if it were silent, or someone else did the talking. Sounds like this is the same slide show I saw last nov. It was the first time I had seen Twight speak and was looking forward to the entertainment. To my surpise, the actual slideshow only voiced the opinions of henry rollins and a few other musicians. The rest of the presentation was story hour as he read excerpts from his book. I was glad to finally see one of his presentations. Yes, the slides were great. But It didnt meet the hype people brought on. And now I dont have to buy the book, because he read it all! Having Backes in the house (little did I know he practically lives in my backyard) and hearing him introduce twight was one of the hightlights for me. I say go...if ya like it, GREAT! If you dont...then ya have one more thing to bitch about!

Seeing daniel's photo of silverstar was fun. as I mentioned in the thread it was the first peak I climbed. It got me thinking and wondering...what was the first peak , rock, or ice climb you did? What was it like? -c

wow! Lots of great thoughts on this thread! First of all I want to reiterate that I dont blame consumers for finding the best deal and running with it...even if that means ordering online, overseas, etc. I didnt start buying climbing gear until I began working at the shop, so I wasnt aware of barrabes or other online deals until about 6-8months ago. I work a few hours a week. In exchange, I buy gear with my paychecks. If I have a big order, I save those paychecks and use the prodeal. Guess you could call it a bartering system in a sense. I know everybody doesnt have the time to do what Im doing. Heck, I dont know how much longer I can fit it into my schedule. So what will I do then? Will I support my local shops or order online where I can get better deals? I dunno! I imagine I will do what most of you do....buy what you can online, used gear, etc and get the rest from my local shop. I appreciate hearing people defend/support their area stores for the most part. My point in the first post (other than the topic was hitting a sore spot on that particular day ) was to emphasize how hard it is on the smaller stores, especially when people come in to look at gear, try it out, etc. only to walk out with nothing in their hands. It was a friendly reminder to support your local gear shops. I forget who mentioned how it was good the customer told us he was now going to buy his gear online and walked out empty handed. I thought of that, but didnt want to ramble in my first post (kinda like I am now ). You are right. It needs to be brought to the attention of the management/owner/buyers...not just this one time, but every time it happens. Its also been mentioned numerous times on this thread that the stores will need to change/adapt. Im wondering what people suggest. This topic is all fairly new to me, as I alluded to earlier. However, Im eager to learn and hear thoughts/opinions.

funny joekania I echo Gregs response. Ive found it really puts me in the moment....somewhat healthier way of forgetting shit (bills, relationships, work, etc) than Ive used in the past. Ya, ya, I know the "healthy" part might be debateable. I also enjoy how it challenges me to think differently. i (think) I kind of like scaring the shit out of myself. And of course, its FUN! Ive always loved being outdoors. Climbing has taken my respect and enjoyment for the outdoors to a different level. Nice post Bronco