carolyn

quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: I use a bullhorn and whip. They usually get the clue after a whippin or 2. Ya, except the one time I DID use the whip...

Thanks for the replies and ideas. I think early saturday morning I will do some digging around for radios. The more I recommend radios with him, the more he is open to it. I think if I just show up with them he will be fine...and probably thankful. Most of the climbs here arent really that tall, so we can almost always see each other. We are also very good at "knowing" what each other needs w/o saying anything. The problems arise when there is a lot of background noise in the area (wind, vehicles,boats, waves, other people talking) and a simple one word command wont communicate what is needed. Also, on the occasion we do a climb where we cant see each other (more typical on ice). The rope tugs...we have a system and use it when need be. I think adding an extra tug or two might make me feel more comfortable. Thanks for pointing that out. David... I like the idea of not using "on belay" or "off belay". VERY easy to mistake what the person is saying. My guess there are other commands or words we use that could be misconstrued as well. We will have to think it over...or at least be more aware, so we can make changes as needed. Ive also been in touch this week with a person who is deaf and climbs. He had some good ideas which we could adapt and/or elaborate on. Finally, Mike, I understand the importance of having a talk "off the rock/ice". It has begun and will continue until its fully resolved. In the meantime, I wanted to find some creative communication alternatives...to keep us safe, and minimize his frustration. Again, thanks for the suggestions!

That is way wierd michelle! Glad things worked out. Im really impressed with your attitude and ability to go have some fun despite the situation...especially on a day that, in general, had the potential to be difficult. to you! Enjoy your trip.

quote: Originally posted by salbrecher: ...our shouting matches would usually end with a frustrated belayer(me) lowering the climber at unusually fast speeds or paying out generous amounts of penalty slack... OMG THat was SOOOO funny, because that was EXACTLY ME today. Only we just opted to go get some bloody mary's at 10am instead of continuing....with the heat we had, I just wasnt ready to put in the extra energy... Thanks for making me laugh about it for once !

THis board is filled with a number of creative folks. Hopefully some of you can help me develop ideas in regards to some communication problems Im having with my main climbing partner. Let me preface this with stating that my climbing partner is an AWESOME person. Not only do I have a blast each time we climb together, I find I go beyond what I thought my abilities were. Its a relationship Im NOT willing to just chuck away. The concern I have (for safety reasons) is the fact that he really doesnt hear well. Its already proven to put us in some potentially dangerous situations. And Im not talking about excessive wind, road noise,etc making it difficult to hear(although that makes it much worse). He truley has a hearing problem. He acknowledges that he cant hear, yet its obvious he doesnt "accept" it as being a medical problem. Communication while climbing is becoming more and more of a struggle. We have incorporated rope tugs and almost always use single word commands. Im thinking a lot about getting some 2 way radios. ALthough, Im not sure how well that will go over with him. I mean, how silly are we going to look on 50ft climbs using a radio for communication?! On the other hand, how silly am I going to look when he *thinks* I say off belay and I fall to the ground? Has anybody here climbed with another person who has a hearing impairment or is deaf? Know of any climbers who are deaf/hard of hearing? I would like to come up with creative solutions to keep us safe. THanks!

Thanks for the practical info iain! Someone was trying to convince me of this pack recently. It looks and sounds great, however I hate to blindly order something...I dont know anyone who owns one and can show me what it looks like in person (except for the individual who bought theirs in like '88). Cost isnt TOO much of an issue while I can still prodeal schtuff. Zippers are on warranty, yes? If I went with the pack, maybe i could replace the zippers immediately (the store I work at does repairs). What year did you get yours? My understanding is there have been some changes....like the fabric being "waterproof" (even though we know nothing is truley waterPROOF). The ice sac looks nice too. Ive recently gotten word that I might be able to demo some granite gear packs (current and/or upcoming designs). So, I may wind up leaning in that direction instead. Thanks again for the info! carolyn [ 09-04-2002, 09:52 PM: Message edited by: carolyn ]

quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: Now hurry up and get real fuckin cold so I can thrash on some waterfall ice. Amen! I'll even drink a guinness to that one cpt!

has anyone ever used wildthings Andinista? Thoughts?

I was in the midst of doing some ordering from our BD rep during this post, so I mentioned it in an email. I got the following response regarding the zippers... quote: Carolyn, Good question on the I-tent. I actually had to wait and ask our tent designer Tom Jones (don't laugh, that is his name). He said that it could have been the following possibilities. A.) Maybe a prototype or sample was sold to him somehow. Did he buy it used. B.) Perhaps a small batch was made with this. Although he's 99.9% sure we've only used YKK. Overall it totally sounds like a fluke. If REI didn't take care of him let me know and we'll make sure he's all setup. I dunno? Do you think these online companies sell cheap at times because they actaully are used items, samples, or maybe not even the real thing? I know you already got your tent and all is good, but maybe you want to follow up with the company you ordered from online?

quote: Originally posted by sk: imho, you should only teach if you have the ability to teach. There are some people who have a natral ability, and I am not sure that can be tought in any class. Children are precious, and teaching a dificult and rarely rewarding profession. I don't think it is something that you should do simply because you like the hours, but you should teach if you want to help mold a generation or three of amzing minds that will look to you for knowledge and wisdom. I work with children nearly every day. I absolutely LOVE them. I agree that some people CAN teach and some people have a harder time reaching the majority. I have two views on substitute teaching... 1)its a good break for the students from their teacher. So much is slammed down their throats..often by teachers who DONT reach them. Really, think back to when you were in school...what a relief it was to have that one day every month or so where you could just relax because you had a sub. 2) Some substitute teachers (I have a lot of friends who do this) bring experiential learning into the classroom and make that day off from the regular teacher FUN, yet still learn from it. (this is not a general diss on regular teachers...I know a lot of teachers who care and do a wonderful job!) Remember, I prefaced the post with, "if you can tolerate children". If you dont like children or have no desire to be around them, then it would be the last thing I would reccomend job-wise. If you want to be a full time teacher...then I would reccomend more than being able to "tolerate" children. It needs to be a true desire to help kids reach their full potential in many aspects of life. Around here, I THINK top pay is 200 bucks a day. Often they require a degree in addition to make you take some "tests". Reasonable enough, I suppose.

If you can tolerate children, substitute teachers are usually needed everywhere. Often times they put you on a list and call you for the days you say you are available to work. You can say yes or no, or just not answer your phone. I know it pays fairly well out here. And shit, I think kids bring their own computers to the classrooms these days...you could get a laptop, spray on cc.com on the days you work...climb in the days you dont! There is an REI in b'ham, right? Dont they usually hire extra folks around the holidays? *gasp* Could be a way to get some of that gear you have been eyeing lately. Bartending is always fun, especially if they let ya have a few thru the day/eve. There are a couple camps in that area which run ropes courses...you could hang in the trees all day! Its actually a lot of work, pay is usually kind of shitty, and it is somewhat seasonal..but it IS fun and offers flexibility both in the amount and kind of work you do. Most places running ropes courses will teach you. If all else fails, go get a shit job(s) which pays well...suffer thru it for 4-6 months...save every penny you can...then travel for the rest of the time you have left before school starts. Good Luck!

since I seem to attract falling objects, I always wear my helmet. There is already enough risk when climbing. Doesnt seem sensible to me to increase my odds of being hurt by leaving it at home or keeping it in my pack. Actually, I learned my lesson NOT by being hit from ice or rock, but walking out from a climb. The trail was part ice/part rock. Didnt want to beat up my crampons, so I took them off. I had my helmet strapped to my pack for some reason. Slipped. Tried to save a fall down a decent hill into some trees and boulders (can you see my arms flailing? ). Helmet came flying around my pack and smacked me in the eye...nice little shiner, I had!

now you have ME curious about the damn zipper! The person who could have answered the question for me at the store was not in when I worked last. The only zipper refresher I received was that YKK, which is the major zipper manufacturer for TNF, Patagonia, Columbia, Marmot, etc had some issues with them because they kept changing their zipper not allowing for 'zip in's'. So if you had an old fleece and a new jacket, they wouldnt be compatable. There was a big fiasco about it...blah, blah, blah. I find it strange that the zipper on your NEW bibler and others' bibler's are YKK, but the one you ordered ONLINE isnt (that should teach you from buying online instead of supporting your local gear shop! ). Did bibler have a problem with YKK as well and tried a different company for a while? Or are there 'generic' bibler tents being sold online? (okay, its been a long day and its late...maybe not the best time for a conspiracy theory ). Give me a bit of time to do a little more digging and I will see what I can come up with. Glad you have a new tent..hope it see's some great journeys!

grrrrrr...dbl post [ 08-23-2002, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: carolyn ]

Sounds like some mixed reviews here, with an overwhelming response leaning toward your typical plastic/bread bag. I was curious because on my ob trip I suffered with my boot liners constantly being wet from sweat...and F'ING FREEZING toes. In fact Im STILL awaiting feeling in a couple toe tips. I used liner socks, I slept with my boot liners in my bag, I dried my socks in my armpits and other warm areas of my body , baby powder on the feet - in the socks - boots, etc. The boot liners rarely dried enough...mmmmm...nothing more enticing than waking up to put your warm feet into a wet liner. Anyway, when I returned home, someone at the store I work at was suprised we werent supplied with or asked to bring vapor barrier socks...giving me a brief explanation as to what they do. As I assisted a woman the other day who was purchasing stuff for HER ob trip, I started to reccomend them, but stopped myself...realizing I had never used them. I pretty much explained their function to her and suggessted she contact OB and do some research to see if it might be a helpful item. I wouldnt wish the frozen toe experience I had on even my worst enemy! Personally, after doing a bit more reading and the thoughts you all shared, if I was on another weeklong+ trip in snow again I might consider bringing the little bags they use when you get customized superfeet. They dont really take up any space or weight, so it would be worth a shot I guess. The only other time my feet are prone to unbearable cold is when Im ice climbing. Usually a toe warmer or two does the trick just fine! (although terminal gravity might not agree *hides in the corner*...sorry tg) Thanks for the info everyone! [ 08-23-2002, 11:13 PM: Message edited by: carolyn ]

just curious if anyone has ever used these and how they worked for you...

I dunno, I wear inverno liners in my alphas because they are a better fitting liner for me. I think the issue with the boots was that the liner was too high, causing problems for some people. I honestly dont have any complaints. The zipper thing...Lambone, check on the actual zipper part...does it say ykk on it? I dont remember the exact controversy with the company, but I know that a lot of the clothing manufactureres were having issues with them. Yet, they were bound to use them for one reason or another. Bibler could have been stuck in the middle of whatever is going on as well. I can find out more if ya like.

maybe I should first think about replacing that smelly shirt, huh figger8? Damn thing will never smell like roses again! And no, not worried about losing the prodeals...as long as I can find the time to work the minimum amount of hours at the store. Just dont expect to be there forever and dont want to waste my hard earned, minumum wage money on frivolous schtuff! ummmm...need I say...Bob Dylan!!!!

quote: Originally posted by Winter: At the risk of being crushed with brutal e-mail and accepting the fact that I am making a completely unjustifiable generalization, does anyone see any difference in the way women (the more emotional sex) handle crisis situations in the moutains? In my limited personal experience in the mountains, but my broader experience working with girls/women in adventure settings, I think females often deal with stressful/crisis situations DIFFERENTLY, but not necessarily better or worse than a male. I think its probably easy enough for either sex to get thru a crisis situation...the difficult part is the aftermath of the mind (ie/once you are down from the mountain). When I had my accident I was pretty calm and collected. My male partner was actually the one kind of freaking out. Afterwards, I was the one one who was kind of freaking out...and he is fine (or so he says). When we talk about it now he doesnt seem to understand why I still have fear. Part of it I contribute to the fact that he didnt experience what I did (physically). The other part is just his personality. I try not to generalize it and say, "typical guy", because that is only going to make climbing with him difficult. Instead we just acknowledge, accept and respect the fact that we are going to deal with things differently. I could go on and on about this subject, but I will spare shaky and the rest of you...maybe another thread?

quote: 2. Buy only ropes, no protection. Have a rope for every occasion (ice floss, doubles, heavy toprope). Let your partners worry about a whole lot of gear and its wear and replacement, while you manage 3 or 4 ropes and replace them over a longer period. You see, i had a different theory for the past year and a half...the folks I climb with all have ropes, so why bother buying one myself? . I actually just got my FIRST rope. Im already thinking about another rope. I opted against a few hexes for now...dru thanks for confirming my decision. Cams...going to wait a bit longer...what are the most frequently used (the necessary sizes)? stoppers, just got a set...are there ones I should double up on or is that excessive? webbing...Im learning...each time I get out and find I have to tie a number of pieces together because I dont have anything long enough. ovals...Im either losing them or just never seem to have enough. prussik...simply for backup on rapps...why do I have a zillion of them, all different mm and lengths? Too many people telling me too many things, maybe. What is standard? Or is it really just preference? rapp/belay devices...I just use an atc...any reason to have more than one kind? Okay..I suppose that one I could read about a bit more on my own...but feel free to give input. Maybe I could rephrase my question... what are the things you dont leave home without when you go craggin? climb a long alpine route? multipitch route on rock or ice? (hmmmmm...I think I left that question wide open for some good spray! ) haireball...good thinking re boots. Maybe I will have to think about another purchase this winter.

Im not really sure I have any new tactics to add when your faced with the fear you have mentioned. However, I can relate. I took a good hit from a chunk of ice this past winter. I was very lucky, and my injuries were minor. The mental battle has been quite the struggle, though. I got myself out the next day and a number of times before the end of the season to work on the fear. I dealt with (and still do) the "what ifs". I find myself having those bad visions, predicting what 'might' happen, etc. i received a lot of good advice from the folks here, similar to what they are giving you. Ive had to work a lot harder at this since the beginning of the summer when I had a near miss with a rock (I must attract falling objects ). I hear someone yell out of pure joy while climbing and have to ask them to stop because its making me jumpy. Someone yells "rope" and I cant hear it clearly...my heart sinks. One sign of loose rock and all I want to do is get the fuck up or out! My heart starts pounding, palms get sweaty, and I get overwhelmed with fear and panic. To top it off, I feel guilty when my partners have to deal with me dealing with myself . What I found the most helpful was focusing on WHY I enjoy climbing and staying in the 'here and now' when the fear strikes. I often stop in the middle of a climb and notice the view around me, find the flowers sticking out of rock, or admire the spiders web in the crack. Sometimes I will ask my partner a dumbass question like, "what kind of ice cream do you have in your freezer right now?". Its the little things which help take my mind off the fear and bring my focus back to the moment. I know those might not all be practical solutions while on lead, but you get the idea...and can adapt them to work for you in your situation. Question for you, shaky..then the rest of the folks... You say you dont go for longer routes now because you dont want to burden (or something to that effect) your partners by asking them to take all the leads. Even though you know this is probably not true, have you talked to them about it? do they help you work thru your fears or do you sit with them by yourself as your out climbing? Also, what HAS helped you in the past? Are you still using those techniques? And to the others... Do you notice a pattern in your level of fear? Like...stressed out in other areas of your life=harder to manage fear? When I posted about my accident someone wrote the following which I try to remember often.... "Breathe. Accept. Dont Ruminate. Enjoy now. Seek tomorrow. Dont project the past into the future. Breathe!" I hope there is something that has been said in this thread which helps even in the smallest way. carolyn

Not guilty! I was out climbing and swingin' tools on styrofoam 'ice' in shorts and tennies while at work.... (hows that for a run on sentence! ) The weather was gorgeous here as well! Hope everyone enjoyed the weekend.

Slowly but surely I am beginning to acquire my OWN gear instead of always having to borrow or depend on someone else. What I found tonight as I was marking some old stuff and new shiny things with tape is that some of it is useless...or is it? And, then the thoughts of ..."oh wouldnt this be nice" or "shouldnt I have more of these?" went through my head. I currently do some part time work at a store which allows me to prodeal gear. I wont have this opportunity forever and wouldnt mind taking advantage of it while I can. I need to plan ahead (ie/get ice screws NOW, even if I dont plan to lead for a while). I know gear depends a lot on what type of climbing you are doing as well as location. Most of my interest has peaked in ice, trad, and mountaineering. Soooo..... what do you find as necessary (other than )? what do you find as a novelty (what would you like, but can and have done without)? and what would you consider useless (wasted money)? If you also wouldnt mind explaining why, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks! (I havent heard anyone mention Prince yet! )

Ive never had any issues flying w/my pocket rocket. I usually buy fuel at the other end or mail it to myself if I think it might be a problem finding the proper canister. Only been asked once if I had a stove...the last time I flew out of seattle a few months ago. They were fine with my rocket when I showed it to them and explained there is no fuel in it. Now I DID have a problem with a caribiner on my water bottle in the detroit airport earlier in the year. I emptied two lighters and some change from my pocket in the little container, then my empty nalgene (w/biner attached). *POOF* gone it was! Like the lighters couldnt do more damage on a flight?!!? Whatever!

*Quetico Crack, N.Shore Lake Superior. 5.8+ offwidth...my first experience with this..and probably harder than it should been due to my lack of technique. Awesome views, great weather, good friends, and puzzled me to no end. The only way out was up, so I had little choice but to top out. *R&D Route, L'worth. My first multipitch. Fun climbing with good folks. Did my first REAL fist jam on the last pitch. Boy did my eyes light up! Grandy Mardy Falls, Kama Bay, Ontario About a 2 mile hike in, mostly on a shallow river with a number of short 15-20ft frozen falls to climb. In the end you are rewarded with this grand wall of ice approximately a half mile wide and 150+ft tall. I understand there is another streambed once you top out which brings you to a similar wall of ice. Maybe next year? Silverstar Although limited peak experiences, this one has been my favorite thus far. The views were amazing! Not counting as a climb...I really enjoyed spending two days at the end of the heliotrope ridge trail on Baker. Would have loved to do some seracing if I had more experience or was with another person. Enjoyed the quiet skies(it was sept 11) and a bit of bouldering on the big rock next to the coleman glacier. Nice topic, cavey! Have a great trip!