klenke

Hey, MattP, if you go up the Anderson Creek way, be sure to give us a TR. That's about the only way I have never been. I have always wondered what it's all about. Tried to find the "start" of the Anderson Creek route once by driving into an old mobile home park. Couldn't find the start. Did something else instead. Can't remember what.

It would cost you a little cash and a little loss in quality (depending on the establishment's scanner quality) if you ask to get the shots scanned to CD-ROM at the time they develop the film. Places like Kit's do this. I'm pretty sure it costs less than $10. If time is money, that's money saved. Why do all that work of scanning yourself. Let someone else do it. Then again, if you only have a few good shots, probably not worth doing the CD-ROM thing.

I agree with Bronco about the Proctor Creek drainage. A few years back I tried to get to Mt. Index from the head of that creek (in the SE corner of Section 34). BW4 and BW5 bushwhacking level. First of all, if the road is not gated at Hwy 12, then follow the logging road to the wye at the NW corner of Section 27 then continue on to the spur that goes up to the normal West Ridge trailhead. If you stay straight and don't go up the leftward spur, you can go another mile to where the road used to cross the head of Proctor Creek. Severe washout there. At just before this washout, there is an open area to park at. The USGS map shows a dashed road leading east then north for about 4/10th of a mile. This road is not drivable. It is severely overgrown. It eventually turns into what would seem like a streambed. This could be the old road. From there, I followed this streambed up, negotiated some cataracts, and eventually got up to the ridge line (BW3 & BW4 since I stayed mostly in the open but log-strewn and cliffy stream course). I got cliffed out on the ridge at the corner between Persis and Index so gave up on Index and went back to tag Persis. To get to Persis, I had to scramble below the ridge crest due to gendarmes until eventually getting to the 5,000-ft notch immediately SE of Persis' summit. A steep gully around the corner led up to the summit. This gully will no doubt be snow-filled and potentially dangerous at this time of year. Since the starting point where you leave the road is ~2,600 ft, you may not have to ascend very far to get into snow-covered brush. In actuality, this could be an easy alternative route if the brush is snow-covered. Going back, I had BW5 for 60% of the way down. Some of the worst bushwhacking I've ever experienced (and I could see my car waiting for me for practically the whole descent). See attached topo map for a view of the area and my ascent/descent routes. I undertook this climb in mid-September 1999. Other note: it is usually not possible to drive to the south side of Mt. Index due to a gate near Lake Cavanaugh in Section 33. I was able to go back there once in the early 90's, but not since.

Tell us about the "spectre."

I wanna know what bozo deemed me worthy of even one star? Or maybe its collusion. Maybe multiple bozos gave me one star.

Mr. Costie could have been misquoted as well. When I talked to the reporter, he was not using a tape recorder, so what I told him he paraphrased at best. In my case, what I really said and what Mr. Welch wrote were close enough to be acceptable. I can't speak for Mr. Costie's interview.

Attached to this post (see top of post) is a topo map I just made of the area. The latitude/longitude location seems a little too far east and closer to Cement Creek than I would have thought. This is the purple X. The red X seems more plausible. Of course, my software could be in error in acquiring the location.

Tread Tramp, We left at 9:10PM so you did just miss us. You saw the enormous crowd at Letona when you got there. There's just no way we could party there without getting crushed to death. So we went to other 'less' crowded places. Figger Eight and his girlfriend (can't remember her name) and Denise went to a scheduled party. Dave Schuldt took off on his bike--almost without paying his share but he thought the better of it. Jules went home, I believe (if only temporarily). A friend of hers from REI also made an appearance with his girlfriend. Chris W and I went down to party in Fremont. At 4:20AM, I left him at a large party about a block west of The George and Dragon Pub. I really doubt he went snowboarding today! What did I do today? Well, let's say that I just got up less than an hour ago. I had to shove the trash can by the bed out of the way before I put my feet down. I'm not going to say whether or not the trash can was used. ---Paul

Huh?

I'd like to come to one of these Pub Clubs for once. It was a 2002 New Year's resolution to attend at least one of these this year. Looks like this will be my last chance. So, is that it: the Latona around 7PM?

Damn it! This makes two years in a row I've lost a climbing friend in an avalanche. Last year, Georgia. Now this year Don Dovey. I last saw Don in November. We had planned a few out-of-state climbs for next summer. I met Don on Mt. Thomson in June 2001. We had done four or five climbs together including a couple Leavenworth excursions. Most recently, we climbed Mt. Index in May. My commiserations to the Dovey family.

Hmmm. My dad lost his digital camera in Cancun this month. Maybe it wasn't your fault. Maybe it's a global conspiracy the way they're disappearing like that. Looks like you didn't make the summit on Saturday. Schucks.

Tomdav's photo: My guess is south side of Mt. Stuart somewhere. Perhaps up in Ulrich's Couloir.

Just thinking outside the box here: What's the accuracy of a GPS device these days? Within 10 meters? (Please don't imply that I'm thinking you could use a GPS in lieu of a beacon. I'm just thinking of a possible future invention that would be an amalgamation of GPS and beacon technologies.)

"been in at least one fist fight while climbing" Right on, I can say anything I want. Cool beans.

That's deep in there. Beware of bigfoot. Or, worse, cavemen.

Here's an idea for a topic for this thread: the winter solstice.

I agree with Iain. Non-climbin' city slickers really don't know how close mountain climbers come to losing their lives every time they go out (comparatively speaking). Even on class 2 terrain, there's nothing stopping us from taking a flying leap off a nearby cliff. Then there's rockfall and avalanches and bears and... Now though, fear in general and what it does or doesn't do for you or me is an esoteric thing. It all affects us somehow, but the effects are ineffable for the most part. It's just a feeling you get. Like trying to define the word love, which might be considered the antithesis of fear...except for those who fear love or love fear. Things I love: Things I fear:

What Steve said regarding being able to rap faster when you're wearing a glove is a good point. I never really thought about it, but that's got to be true. Although, I'm trying to remember if I've ever not worn a glove rappeling. Can't draw a conclusion without knowing what it's like both ways. Quote from Freedom of the Hills (6th Edition, page 137): "The question of whether to wear gloves when using a belay device has no easy answer. As noted earlier, your gripping ability is greater bare-handed than with most gloves. With the use of any standard belay device, a bare-handed belayer who is near average in gripping ability can easily stop the routine leader and follower falls that are common in rock-climbing areas. Furthermore, gloves can make your hands damp and soft, undesirable when it's your turn to climb. "On the other side, you may be required at any time to hold an extreme fall, the force of which can pull the rope through your hand. Heat buildup is quick; the sliding rope can burn your bare hand, causing you to drop the rope. Of course, gloves may be necessary to keep your hands warm in cold weather."

"Slippage of rope through the hand only occurs when the hand holding the rope runs into the device and stops." This is not entirely true. In my rope burn incident, my brake hand never abutted the belay device. Since my grip was relaxed and a sturdy brake was not being applied (I had my hand more in front of me than beside me thus less bend of the rope over the edge of the ATC), when the follower weighted the rope, it began to slide through both my ATC and my brake-hand simultaneously. The rope burn occurred in the fraction of a second when I began to apply pressure to the rope. It was kind of like those times when you grab for a rope-tow rope and it slides for a second before you gain a no-slip grip. After pressure was applied, then my hand may have moved down to the ATC. I don't remember.

Well, I have experienced rope burn, as I said. Although it has only happened once to me. In my case, the follower was out of sight and when he fell on slabby ground I was busy dealing with the lay of the paid-in rope with my non-brake hand (by reaching across to the braking side as we have all had to do). Even though I had my brake-hand on the rope, it was not firmly on the rope. My sorting concentration may have led to an unintentional reduction of brake pressure. Can't say for sure. In the end, only about 1 foot of rope went through my palm but it was enough to give me rope burn. The weather was nice and the rope was new, as I recall; so the rope had a greater amount of roughness to it. Dirt/mud had not yet smoothed its sheath.

Apart from commenting on the incorrectness in word-usage regarding this sentence "I've always eschewed gloves while belaying (and rapping, for the same reason), but I wonder if this is really considered necessary.", my two cents are: 7 times out of 10 I wear gloves while belaying and this largely depends on what the leader is doing (how difficult his/her lead is). If he/she's doing a rock climb pitch on class 5, I generally wear gloves. Class 4 maybe (depending on long fall exposure). Class 3 probably not. While rappeling, I always wear gloves unless, of course, I've forgotten them. I don't like the idea of having to stop myself with my bare hand(s) from careening down a rappel site if I lose control--especially if I'm upside down. Often, I'll only wear a belay glove on the brake hand. My reasoning for wearing gloves: rope burn and avoiding the dirtying of my hand(s). I've experienced mild rope burn on a mild leader fall and even this hurt like a son-of-a-gun for a long time afterward (like hours afterward). I don't want to experience the burning of a big leader fall. Another reason to wear a brake-hand glove is that it is easier to let some rope feed through your closed palm to lower a leader, give slack, etc.

Dead band guy or banded dead guy or guy who's band is dead or ... You think it's bad now, you wait a few years to see how this site has progressed in its liberal assessment of what is acceptable/not acceptable. Damn man, I know I sure am glad this site exists. Remember the dark ages when we all had ulterior lives? Now, this website rules our lives.