David Yount

I declined for a few reasons. He had no beta and I heard the middle was a difficult navigation; it was not appealing to me to attempt a speed record on this route unless I was mostly certain we could complete the event. He wanted to simulclimb many pitches and I didn't trust him like that. In general he was a much bigger barker than his actual bite and I didn't want to donate one of my recreation days to his half-baked plan. Yes, eventually I got on the route. First attempt got lost in pitches 15 and 16. Second attempt stopped ascending at pitch 15 because it was getting dark anyways; as well, only brought one rope so I knew we would be descending by traversing east (right) into the vertical jungle and then slinging trees every 80 feet, all the way down........ Subsequently I was successful. Originally Posted By: Idea_Guy

Hey man, Sounds like you tore it up. What was your car to car? tks

13 hours car to car was the fastest time I read, and I only read threads that were titled as a trip report, or similar. I figured if a team had intent to share their ascent then they would likely begin a new thread. Just curious. Buddy of mine tried to get me to join him several years ago.... for a speed attempt. I declined. Just curious what kind of car to car time has been earned?

13 hours car to car is the fastest time i've found on cc.com rc.com st.com, but i didn't wade thru all posts with infinite bliss in the subject or body.... mostly just trip reports.... seems like a solid time, and has anybody a faster time to share??

Nitrile Gloves. My favorite. Been using them for hazardous field work (superfund sites, nasty chemicals) for many years. You can purchase your exact hand size, they are super tough, and they don't degrade like latex does after months of storage. "Latex products contain two types of compounds that may cause an allergic reaction - natural proteins (the biggest culprit) and added chemicals such as antioxidants. Synthetic rubber, such as vinyl, neoprene, and NITRILE, does not contain these allergens. "

CBS, sweet idea. Currently science fiction, maybe fact in the future. Kinda like double butted bicycle spokes 14gauge-15gauge-14gauge. I like 9.small millimeter 70-meter for connecting pitches, coupled with a 7.4mm twin for full length raps. Thread the thick line through the anchor, pull the thin line. If the thick line gets stuck during the pull I can lead (or continue rapping) on the twin by doubling it. Well, I don't mind the weight; though most would rather fall into a deep crevasse with a broken leg, alone. I think 100-meter lines are for doubling and using as double rope technique. When rapping you dont' have any joining knot; smooth...... --David.

Uhm, 5629 University Way NE, KNARR Tavern (Seattle - U-District) Wed 7pm $4 pitchers Mooshead Canadian Petes Wicked Rogue Dead Guy ....different choices week to week

(smith)Wedding Day feels good at 10B, but everybody tells me different. I’ve climbed a few other 10B with challenging cruxes, how about the one next to Screaming Yellow Zonkers (10D)? (leaveworth)Canary 5.8 P1 exit moves feels 5.8 technique, maybe burly and a bit awkward. But how about (gunks)Wrist 5.6 last pitch roof exit moves? I’d agree that Seneca and Gunks and Index each feel hard, similar but uniquely. (snow creek wall)Outerspace 5.9 finishing the Pedestal Pitch at 5.6 seemed OK; but, then, I didn’t feel the 5.9 in the crux.

CCH Aliens, Metolius TCU's, WC Zero's, Lowe Sliding Ball Nuts (Nutz). I have 4 of each, but 5 Nutz. I like each design. For the tightest cracks only my Nutz will fit inside. Also, for the shallowest cracks my Nutz rule. TCU heads are skinnier than Aliens which are skinnier than Zeros. Skinny head is good. It's far easier to visually inspect critically the inner cam on a TCU than on either FCU, especially when using the smaller sizes. The working range of these smallest units is so small that without adequate visual inspection you're placement is at best a hope and prayer. TCU's have the best trigger/spring action, strong but silky and smoothly even throughout the pull. Zeros get nice action. Aliens action quickly degrades. Zeros have the least stiff stem, which is usually preferable in these micro cams. Aliens get trashed far easier and faster; they need more love and upkeep. TCU's have thicker cam lobes than Aliens which are thicker than Zeros. Thick cam lobes is good. Aliens tip out on one side easier than Zeros and TCU's don't tip out. Tipping out a pair of cams on the same side is not good, it can make retrieval challenging. Of all 4 designs the TCU's are quickest for me to place. And sometimes after screwing with FCU and TCU I slot in big BD Micro Stopper or Trango Brassie instead. Visually inspecting a large micro nut can be far more reliable than guessing what's going on with the inner pair of cams in a tight dark crack. --David.

BD 0.3 for sale, approx same range as Alien 0.75 Green, TCU #1 Blue, Wild Country Zero #5; interested? PM me.

Black Blue and Green Aliens showed up 5 days later

Until this camera: Kyocera SL300R (3MP ~$350) http://global.kyocera.com/news/2003/1106.html I had not used a digicam that didn't bother me with it's slow start up time after pushing the Power/ON button. This camera is crazy fast, less than 1 second. And the delay of taking the photo after I've already pressed the shutter button.... "shutter lag" I couldn't abide; until this camera, 0.07 seconds, as fast as $5000 professional models. I guess the time it takes to turn on a digicam and actually snap the shutter has always been aggravatingly slow to me; the time for the fist picture ("off to shot taken"). With strong light this unit rocks, fastest in the world. And talk about burst mode, how about unlimited continous mode of 3.5 frames per second unlimited! No other camera can do this. The liquid crystal monitor follows and displays images in real-time during consecutive shooting. If it is difficult to photograph the subject, such as children or pets with fleeting expressions, or moving subjects at an athletics meet or in group photograph with a number of people, or a nice phat lead fall taking consecutive photographs enables you to select the best shots afterward. And this unit takes full VGA (640x480 pixels) video up to the remaining memory available. Quality movies, not 5 fps or 10fps.... a full 30 frames per second! With any camera, if you're gonna take movies you GOTTA have Lithium-Ion rechargeable batteries. Browsing photos is no where faster; not even close. About $300, lightweight (6 oz w/batteries) and impressive form factor (it's very small, "ultra compact"), nice glass (Carl Zeiss), 3x optical zoom and 2x digital = 6x zoom, but not outstanding in low light and for those that lug tripods - no tripod mount. It's new, it's different, it's near perfect for climbing, and it's got some specific features that I've learned are of primary importance to me. --David.

Yep, wanted some more schwag, they had it, their price was the lowest, ordered it, received it. Happy. Now I want more aliens, they got'em, they have best price, ordered it, should be here soon. Happy. --David.

(I'm posting for a friend) Selling $65 Paid $100 Shoe/Boot 5.10 Guide Almighty - NEW size 8, brown nubuck leather with green nylon, still in box one of the lightest approach boot/shoes available 15 ounces each sticky rubber for technical approaches and 5.easy alpine lines I live by Greenlake in Seattle, cash only I subsequently purchased size 9 somewhere else which I love, but never got around to returning the size 8 Email directly chericlimbs at yahoo dot com and please include your phone number if you are serious PS I won't likely read this forum, serious buyers will email directly and leave me their phone number, thanks.

I've had Zipka since REI 1st carried them, 2+ years ago? I can't remember. It's in my pant pocket everyday and I use it several times a week. Except for the original lens getting horribly scratched by keys and coins I've no issues with it. Replacement lens (pack of 3: clear and a green and a red: $3) installed and a simple sack to store it in and it's been bomber. I typically change the 3x AAA batteries after 50 hours of use. But it's the first 30 hours that are very bright. The cord shows almost no wear and the spring-rewind mechanism has no issues. I've used it for a 20-mile trail jog totally at night, descents from many cascade peaks at night, and over 2 dozen pitches of climbing at night. It's never caused me to pause. I've never found the cord uncomfortable around my head. Rather than bring extra batteries, I bring along a second Zipka.

Crimson Chrysalis fits your request perfectly. High quality routes exist at all grades, but if you're looking for mostly 5.8 and maybe more, I'd suggest you study up on Crimson Chrysalis. Most of the others mentioned do not give you the same challenge and effort. Crimson Chrysalis (5.9 in Uriostes' 1984 guidebook, I think) keeps the pressure up virtually the entire way, nice solid sustained climbing; coupled with the approach makes for a full day adventure for most.

The Petzl Meteor helmet has 3 main components: a strap to keep it optimally positioned, foam to absorb impact, a light shell. The outer shell is important, it is NOT for decorative purposes. A lesser funtion of this shell is durability, the foam would not sustain much incidental bump and ding without compressing and goughing. But the most important function of the shell is to provide integrity for secondary impacts [and to slightly increase overal strength]. The Meteor was produced many many years after helmet technology had designed and tested helmets for bicyclists post 'hard-shell' era, most notably associated with the Bell V1-Pro [fully black thick hard plastic shell over a foam interior]. The next generation of helmets after the 'hard shell' era developed the 'micro-shell' design. Some micro-shell designs used a lycra/mesh covering, others used a very thin plastic cover. Ultimately the lycra/mesh covers were dropped in favor of a thin pastic cover. The micro-shell is NECESSARY on cycle helmets as well as climbing helmets because without it the foam would collapse and disintegrate immediately after the initial impact. The micro-shell assits the foam in holding it together for secondary impacts during the same accident [and for cyclists its slick surface prevents lateral/anterior/posterior neck flexion due to high friction of foam directly on pavement]. The Petzl Meteor is an excellent choice for sport routes at a crag. Where rockfall is present or generally wider variety of head hazards is present, a hard shell climbing helmet may be a better choice.

I have a Karrimor Alpiniste 45+10 for sale. It has a very narrow profile and is really stable - Karrimor is British and the pack is primarily targeted at Scottish ice climbers. The 45+10 means the pack has a capacity of 45 liters and can be stuffed to 55, or something like that. I think it isn't quite that big actually. I'm going to sell it because it is an inch or two too short for my back, which makes me miserable on the trail when the pack is loaded up with rope, rack, bivi gear etc. It has dual ice axe loops with old-style straps (not tubes/holsters like some packs), two daisy chains, two compression straps on each side, ski retention straps at the bottom, wand pockets, crampon straps on the lid pocket, gear loops on the hip belt, inside shovel and probe pockets, an extension thingy that makes the pack more useful for stuffing your legs into in case of an emergency bivi, and a framesheet compartment that I always stuff my 3/4 length thin thermarest into. I still have the original framesheet. I can bring it to pub club if somebody is interested. I'm ca. 5'9" and my back is rather long - you only want this pack if your back is shorter than mine as the distance between the shoulder straps and the hip belt is not adjustable. Karrimor is at http://www.karrimor.co.uk/ but has one of those stupid flash sites. They seem to have done a color revision on the pack but the only functional change I can see is that they went to ice axe fabric tubes and removed the crampon straps on the top. [ 08-31-2002, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: Idea Guy ]

Dude, if you're Mary Rocks boyfriend you name must be Lucky!!

Paul, the number of bolts that were plundered at Frenchman Coulee (also known as Vantage) numbers well into the 100's and 100's and 100's. There are still well over 100 hangers missing. Easy Off has been repaired but the 2nd or 3rd route to the right, Snooze Ya Loose, is still stripped. Kevin Pogue has been doing most of the work and many assorted individuals have been donating cash or hangers to him. The Frenchman Coulee Climbers Coalition - FCCC had a semi-annual Board meeting last weekend and it seemed to go very well. The Coulee seems to be experiencing growing pains, much like dozens of other popular climbing crags around the nation. But, with an active FCCC and especially the sagely advise of Andy Fitz, Regional Coordinator for the Access Fund, the biggest hassle for climbers is likely the Columbia Gorge concert goers.

Zeno: because of the low impact force i wonder if it might be reasonable to do an entire ice climb with both ropes clipped to each screw. and then i wondered to myself, "what is the advantage to that, huh?" does anyone have an opinion? Idea_Guy: Related to maximum impact force the ropes will place on belay system (the only concern is on the actual placement):You can use half-ropes by clipping them into each screw, together. The impact force will be safe, because the UIAA won't certify a half-rope unless the impact force of 2 half-ropes clipped together is less than the maximum impact force for a certified single-rope. That maximum impact force for a single-rope (or 2 half-ropes clipped into the same piece) is 12kN. Typically 2 half-ropes clipped together exhibit impact forces far lower than maximum allowable; the PMI 8.1mm half-rope named Verglas generates a maximum impact force of 8.4kN in the UIAA tests (when tested together). Whereas many single lines generate larger maximum impact forces than 8.4kN in the UIAA tests but 12kN is allowable. If you would lead a route on a single line then you can lead on a pair of half-ropes clipping them together at every piece. Related to sheath burning:If you are going to clip both half-ropes to every piece then you may clip them through the same biner. If you begin clipping them together through the same biner and then clip them alternately that is fine too (in regards to sheath burning). If at any point on a pitch you clip them alternately and later wish to clip them to the same piece then you need to use separate biners for each line (unless the rope line is nearly straight). If you take a fall on a piece with both lines clipped through one biner and formerly the lines were clipped alternately and took different paths then the two lines will rub against each other fiercely as you fall is arrested. The lines will rub on each other not because they are in the same biner, touching. They will rub because they have different amount of slack and different amount of total length between the belay and the climber. These 2 differences will cause one rope to catch the fall first and the other rope will be fairly slack. If there is enough difference (how much is enough? nobody knows) then the relative movement between the ropes may cause enough friction (nylon rubbing on nylon creates significant friction which generates heat and the melting temperature of nylon is low such that it can easily begin to melt from this mechanical friction heat) to damage the rope decreasing it's tensile strength and maybe even melt the rope until it breaks during the arresting of the fall. Decreasing maximum impact force (the only safety concern really is regarding the placement):If you want to clip both half-ropes into a piece then the impact force will be greater than if you only clipped one half-rope. The PMI Verglas maximum impact force in the UIAA test is 8.4kN for both ropes clipped together and only 5.4kN for one half-rope. But there are ways to decrease the impact force (generated in arresting a fall) when clipping both ropes together. The simplest way is to clip one half-rope to an extension sling or a longer sling. Both ropes are clipped to the placement, one rope is clipped closer and the other rope is clipped farther away. It is important that the ropes do not share a biner if clipping in this way (see sheath burning, above). How would this decrease the force on the placement since both ropes are clipped to the same placement? Differently lengthened slings on the same placement for clipping both half-ropes decreases the force on the placement. TECHNICAL ENGINEERING (very long and not necessary): the additional distance fallen (which creates more energy) is trivial compared to the additional time during the deceleration (which decreases energy). E = W * d / t where E is the energy required to stop the falling climber (measured in Joules), W is the weight of the climber (measured in kilograms), d is the distance it takes to stop the climber, this is not the total distance the climber falls, just the distance the climber falls while the rope(s) is(are) arresting his fall (measured in meters), t is the time it takes to stop the climber falling (measured in seconds). Our goal is to increase t even if it increases d, because E varies more as a function of t rather than d. Let's say you're 5 feet above your placement and you fall. You'll end up at least 10 feet lower. After you stop falling and everything settles you'll be about 14 feet lower typically. Those extra 4 feet were caused by the dynamic stretch of the rope(s) which is typically about 30% and also maybe the belay shifted. The static stretch is usually about 7% The dynamic stretch acts a bit like a rubber band, it recoils some. But it does not immediately return to its original length. When a dynamic rope catches a fall it elongates 20% to 30% typically and then recoils some. Ropes can elongate dynamically 40%, 50% sometimes even more in a really really long fall that is also high fall factor. They typically break if there is still energy to absorb after they stretch 50%. If you hang a 100 foot rope with 7% static stretch and tie yourself to the hanging end then you'll stretch it about 7 feet and be hanging 107 feet below the belay. But if you take a 200 foot fall on a 100 foot rope and assuming it doesn't break you'll end up hanging much lower than 107 feet below your belay. Maybe you'd be 130 feet below. The dynamic stretch recoils some but it takes about 20 min to 30 min of unweighted rest for the rope to regain most of its elasticity (some elasticity is lost forever every time a dynamic rope catches a fall). As you were coming to a halt the rope might have stretched to 140 feet and then recoiled to 130 feet. The elongation of the PMI rope directly after the UIAA test was 36% when testing one half-rope (they use a factor 1.73 fall?). The rope stretched more than 36% while stopping the fall, then recoiled some. In this example you fell 240 feet maximum and ended up 130 feet below the belay after a slight recoil. The distance fallen during deceleration is 40 feet, the distance the rope maximally stretched. This is the distance the rope was having work performed on it, the distance the rope was absorbing energy. The time during deceleration was brief, very brief. About a second? (very dangerous pseudo science follows: generalize the dynamic rope as an ideal spring with force of 8.4kN exerted on climber of mass 70kg, a = F / m and calculated acceleration = -120m/ss obviously a coarse approximation but likely it's much larger than earth's gravitational field and since d = 1/2 * a * t * t with d=40feet and a=9.8m/ss then time to freefall 40 feet calculate t = 1.6 seconds and since the deceleration of the rope at 120m/ss is much greater than the acceleration of gravity at 9.8m/ss it would take less time to stop a climber in 40 feet than it would take to fall 40 feet so the time during deceleration during those 40 feet seems like it would be less than 1.6 seconds) NON-ENGINEERING:All of this science just to give insight that if we can allow the rope more time to absorb the fall, then the impact force it places on the protection will be reduced. This was discovered in testing with load limiting stitch-ripping devices. John Yates with Pro Design USA designed screamers which are a stitch ripping device that allows forces to be decelerated over a longer time interval than they would be if the Screamers were not in the system. And the forces transmitted by the ropes on the belay system are decreased. ENGINEERING:Some interesting things happen when you look at how much energy is absorbed in the system when a screamer is used. If the True absorption is measured in a completely static system, lets say doing a drop test with a steel cable and weight we will see that about 500-600 lbf was absorbed by the stitch ripper(Screamer). When a Screamer though is put in a system which uses dynamic climbing rope instead of static steel cable the amount of energy which is absorbed is increase by 25-40%. We see that the absorption of energy increases to 800-900 lbf. I can attribute this extra energy we see being absorbed to the fact that the Dynamic climbing rope in the system is allowed to elongate and remain dynamic for a longer time interval than it would be, if there was no screamer in the system. An example: A dynamometer or load cell is placed on a bolt hanger. A climber takes a fall which generates a fall with a factor of 0.5. This generates a force of 2000 lbf as seen on the dynamometer. When a Screamer is hooked in the system below the dyno, the same fall only shows a peak force of 1200 lbf. We know from extensive testing that the Screamer can only absorb 500 lbf. So how do we account for the extra 300 lbf seen in this example??? Screamers limit loads and dissipate energy over an increased time interval. NON-ENGINEERING:The increased time interval (duration) of the arresting phase of the fall allowed the climbing rope to be more absorptive! This increase in the duration of the fall is most important in a Dynamic systems because it allows the rope to do its job even better than it was designed to do. So back to our differently lengthened slings on the same placement for clipping both half-ropes decreases the force on the placement. If both half-ropes were clipped together to the first placement (whether on the same biner or separate biners, it makes no difference related to impact force) and you fall, both ropes will catch you equally, which is fine. They will exert a force on the placement less than 12kN because they are certified by the UIAA, and actually they will exert a force just about the same as a certified single-rope which typically is about 9kN. But if one half-rope was clipped to an extension sling 2 feet long to the same placement and you fell, the half-rope clipped closer would begin to catch the fall first. After it stretched 2 feet the other half-rope would begin to catch. The time it takes to stop you will be a bit longer. And this longer duration during the arresting phase allows the dynamic nature of the ropes to absorb more of the energy. The 2 ropes will place a lower force on the placement. You can realize this same additional energy absorption without the extra sling. When leaving the belay with half-ropes if you want to clip the first several pieces with both ropes then use separate biners and establish with you belay 1 of the half-ropes as loose. The belay can keep 2 extra feet slack with 1 of the lines. Now back to the top. Just because a half-rope is certified by the UIAA means that it's impact force is less than 12kN when clipped together, but that does not mean that your pro will hold. Clipping both half-ropes into a placement will always generate more force than 1 half-rope. Even if you use the extension sling or loose rope method. If climbing snow and ice with no rock edges then clipping 1 half-rope is quite safe. A half-rope is not going to blow out due to a fall. It's sharp rock edges that destroy climbing ropes in falls. And a half-rope is much easier cut than a single-rope, due to surface area of the rope (and volume to a degree as well). Surface area increases 3 times faster than diameter, a rope twice the diameter will have six times the surface area. Those old 11mm lines last forever because they have so much area to take the abuse. These new 9.4mm lines show wear much quicker. And here's an extra dose of relief. The UIAA test is more severe than anything that could possibly ever happen outdoors (regarding the edge they use to simulate a biner) (notwithstanding pendulum falls scraping the rope(s) across an edge). When they specify a rope like PMI Verglas with it's rating of 5.4kN what that means is that in the lab the rope absorbed all of the falling energy except 5.4kN. And that remaining force was passed on to the belay system. It does not mean that every fall you take on that line will generate 5.4kN of force on your placement. Far from it. The rope absorbs lots and lots of energy, and the longer you it has to absorb the energy the better it is at absorbing energy. The energy created when falling outdoors is far less than in the UIAA test lab, and the force transmitted to your pro is usually way below pullout, assuming your pro opportunity was good and your placement was good. To excerpt Helmut Microys, National Delegate to the UIAA Safety Commission for the USA and Canada. Present day ropes will not break at a runner or at the tie-in knot of the leader in a fall. This does not even happen with very old ropes. A rope fails when a sharp edge cuts it. As a rope is used, the capacity to hold a fall over a sharp edge decreases. Generally speaking, a rope which holds many falls in the UIAA drop test will resist cutting better than a rope which hold fewer falls. Using two half ropes clipped in together will produce forces on the protection higher than when using a single rope. Twin ropes act like a single rope. And use separate biners for each rope unless you clip all pieces with both ropes. The forces in the system are, however, determined by the belay method. Any modern dynamic belay method will limit the forces inherent in the device. The impact force (the maximum obtained during the UIAA drop test) and provided on the rope tag, is of no consequence. Thus the forces generated, particularly in a near frictionless system, which may occur on a waterfall, are not very high. These forces are, as a rule, vastly below the capacity of any equipment (carabiners, ice screws, pitons, slings, etc.). The problem lies in the holding capacity of the ice screw, piton, nut, etc. If the ice is of poor quality, a screw capable of holding 20 kN in good ice is no more helpful than a coat hanger, if that is the holding power of the ice. So in a scary, poor ice, situation the only thing, which may be of value, is to put protection at very close spacing. That unfortunately is often not possible. But it would help to clip both ropes in the last bomber protection. If there are no sharp edges, a rope could most likely be used until the mantle starts shredding and can no longer be used in a belay device. This applies mainly to a single rope. The half rope is simply not designed to take major leader falls. But as mentioned before, the forces in the system are determined by the belay device. With a properly working dynamic belay, not much will happen to the rope. Zeno:and then i wondered to myself, "what is the advantage to that, huh?" does anyone have an opinion? Idea_Guy:Clipping both half-ropes into every placement offers redundancy and you won't need to consider criss-crossing the lines. Goatboy: My understanding is simplistic, but here goes: Clipping two 8 mm ropes into one piece is similar to clipping one 16 mm rope into the same piece. Idea_Guy:Two 8.0mm ropes together are like one 11.3mm rope, sort of…. It's mostly a function of design characteristics, including the secret "bake" to set the rope, but next mostly a function of volume and not simple linear addition of diameters, like chucK said. Gerg:But, having a dynamic belay can have the most significant effect on reducing the impact force, so perhaps this is all a moot point? Idea_Guy:Like Gerg said. Dynamic belays save placements! Just read the excerpt below. Dynamic Belay may be the single most important safety item. Last winter Craig Luebben and I conducted some drop tests on ice. Craigpublished an article in Climbing Mag on some of these results and resultsof his static tests. I have also written an article on static tests Ihave conducted in the lab (email me if anyone wants a copy). Anyway, weset up our tests under the bridge in Ouray. This was in pretty bad iceactually and for the most part the gear did not hold. Our setup was witha static belay, a new 10.5 mm BD rope, fall factors in the 1.5 to 1.8range, and 185 pounds of steel. With this setup the only thing thatactually held was a 10 cm screw. Everything else ripped out OR carabinersbroke! I attribute this to the bad ice and that the 10 cm screw thatheld was probably in the only good ice we found. We decided to conduct a series of tests where we used the same section ofrope over again. The first three tests the gear ripped out. On thefourth drop we about keeled over in disbelief. We had a Snarg as the testpiece connected to the rope with a draw with BD QS2 biners. A few feetbelow this was two equalized screws (BD and a Grivel). They were equalizedwith a single 24" sling and a locked Big Easy was connected to the rope. The biner on the snarg broke, the hanger on the Grivel screw sheared alongits long bend, then the big easy locked biner broke! This is three piecesof hardware that broke on one fall. Now, I am assuming that these werenot defective products (a solid assumption based on my knowledge of allthe gear and the systems to produce it, and a review of the fracturesurfaces of the parts we actually recovered). This means that the forcesgenerated were well in excess of 5000 pounds (multiple times!). Now thetricky part. Conducting a static test on a new rope with the same diameterwith the same type of knots caused the rope to break in the 3500 poundrange. I don't know why the gear broke and why the rope did not. Therewas about one hour between drops so the rope had some reasonable time torecover. Now the good news. When we placed an ATC in the system (i.e. some dynamicaspects) every test we conducted held except for a couple of tests withSpectres. What does this mean? Dynamic belays are your friend! Climbers have knownthis for about a century now. Many climbers today do not understand thisvery well. This is why I am relating these types of info to this newsgroup. I am purposely trying to get this group to discuss this stuff indetail and learn something from it.

I've placed 4 orders in last 3 years to MEC from Seattle, each about CAN$800 and never was delayed or taxed. A few friends' orders experienced no hassle either. I recommend speaking with MEC about classifying your order as a Group Order. I forget the details but I saved a little on their prices and maybe that status makes the border crossing a little nice too?

The experience of a friend of mine: I recently purchased some items from http://www.gearexpress.com after a list of hot deals appeared on the UW Climbers list. Included in my order was a 75cm Raven Ice Axe that was blemished and offered at a reduced price, as well as an ABC Blast Padded Harness that was on sale. My order was filled promptly and arrived a couple days later. But to my surprise, they had sent me a NEW ice axe, since they had run out of the blemished items. They also upgraded me to a BETTER Zenith harness because they didn't have my size in the ABC. Included with the order was a personal hand-written note from the owners, explaining the changes they'd made. These guys rock.

As long as the tails on your water knot stick out even a tiny bit outside the knot itself.... your rap will be a safe rap. The cyclic loading caused the tails to slip 0.0028 inches per loading. The water knots did not fail until one of the tails was inside of the knot. Technically the water knot will fail if loaded and unloaded 1000's of times...... In reality, if there exist tails, you're green for go. If you're super cheap and prefer bulk webbing for all of your single and double runners and maybe for all of your sport draws as well, the best thing to do is hand stitch 12 times the tails. This casual stitching provides sufficient strength to prevent the 0.0028 inch creep.

I've played with Air Tech and Raven in a coupla stores..... but never outside. I prefered the Air Tech. But the Raven is definately sexy. FWIW - $59 BD Raven $5 shippingadd $5 for optional cush grip and leash http://www.gx.starvedrockoutfitters.com/cgi-bin/miva?M erchant2/merchant.mv+Screen=PROD&Store_Code=G&Product_Code=4456B70 [ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: Idea Guy ]