Fairweather

Keep your PM's to yourself , JGowans. If you're so wound up by my suggestions that you feel the need to contact me personally and call me names, maybe you need a bit of ....therapy.

Hey JGowans. Stop trying to pretend you're interested in real debate. The titles of your threads, such as "Why do people hate America" are nothing but TROLLS. Your oft-profane replies to those who disagree with your premise belie your real motives. You're gettin' what you ask for! Enjoy.

So, who did you vote for JGowans? I see you're a big fan of our first ammendment. (After all, your pie-hole never seems to shut!) So why do you decry the second? And tell me why your opinion should matter anyway. Become a citizen....vote....whine! That is the proper order of things my Scotish friend. Fuck off you condescending prick. You think that because I'm not American I can't offer an opinion, or if I do, it's not valid cos I don't have a piece of paper saying that I'm a citizen. You're a complete fucking twat. The fact that I pay taxes gives me the right to have an opinion. Btw, I didn't express any fucking opinion in this thread. Just provided a link. You're the one that offered an opinion. Btw, I have no intention of EVER becoming an American. I have enjoyed living here, and have appreciated the hospitality of many, but at the end of the day, I'm Scottish, proud to be Scottish, and will always only be Scottish, and yes, I will go home at some point. Don't take it as a slight that I don't wish to be American. I realize it may be shocking to note that I'm not your average immigrant for whom life was shit back home and now bleeds red white and blue. No, it's a life experience here that's been a lot of fun, but there's loads more fun places to check out before I get old and crusty. For those that are busy creating a reply offering to pack my shit for me, save it cos it's fucking boring you fucking xenophobic wankers. My, oh my. Do all Scots have such bad manners and use such foul language? Pull your kilt outta your crack.

So, who did you vote for JGowans? I see you're a big fan of our first ammendment. (After all, your pie-hole never seems to shut!) So why do you decry the second? And tell me why your opinion should matter anyway. Become a citizen....vote....whine! That is the proper order of things my Scotish friend.

Four Days. If you'd have said three, I would be feeling quite "un-manly' right now. Glad you guys had a nice trip! Isn't this the second time I've unknowingly run into you in the past year?

Did you guys take three days, or four? ...I remember saying to the others, "I'll bet those guys were CC.Comer's!

Were you the group of four that I talked to just above "Copper Camp"on Sat? We ran into another group (of five) coming down easy ridge on Sunday that were unsuccessful.

Tried Mt Challenger as a 3-day ascent last Sat, Sun, and Mon with CC.Comer's Norman Clyde, MountainGuy01, and Terry Mclane ....It sure looked "do-able" in three days on paper! Day one: As planned; Hannegan Pass TH to Camp on Easy Ridge (Chilliwack crossing was no problem!) at 5200 feet. 12+ mi., 4500' gain. Day two: We set out at about 9am thinking it would be an "easy day" to Perfect Pass. After a somewhat exposed steep snow traverse of Easy Peak we descended toward the base of the gray buttress and then sharply downward with the intention of bypassing the "imperfect impass" altogether by dropping to 4500 feet, and then climbing the wooded ridge that offers access to the east side of the big basin beneath Perfect Pass. We did this with much time wasted routefinding and much time wasted on talus and steep heather. With our original intent being a climb of Challenger the morning of the third day, and then a "hike out" on the same, we began to realize that we had "misallocated" our time such that our final day would surely become and all night death-march with headlamps back to the trailhead at Hannegan....not to mention the 4500 feet (net) we would have to climb back up to get out! We turned around about 1200 feet short of Perfect Pass (at the top of the wooded ridge), descended back to 4500 feet, reclimbed to 6700 feet on Easy Ridge, and returned to our camp at 5200 feet. Day three: Descended back to Chilliwack River, climbed the 2500 feet back up to Hannegan Pass in the hot sun, then out. At 41 years old I'm no "hard man", but I'm not a slacker either. I'm sure three days is do-able, but four would be gravy. Nice weather, nice views, great company! I think we'll try the Whatcom Peak traverse approach next time. Any thoughts? Also, the Easy Pk-Mineral Mtn-Ruth Mtn traverse looked great for a skiier! Anyone done it?

Fairweather: Although you say you like the debate and you claim to be proud of what a free society this is, you suggest that one who can't even vote here should not "inject theirself" into politics here and you don't think Gowans should be saying those things because it shows that he is rude and unappreciative. I don't know whether Gowans has injected himself into our politics (spraying on this site doesn't in my mind constitute being involved in politics), but why shouldn't he? It looks to me as if you and your pal Mountain Goat refuse to directly engage with people who disagree with you, but instead keep flinging the same old tired rhetoric that we've read here so many times before. We know you think that anybody who criticizes the Administration is unAmerican and the U.S. should not enter into cooperative relationships with any nation that won't hop to our command and that we should only maintain those relationships as long as they suit our immediate purposes -- but let's see some discussion here even if it is only for amusement's sake. Newsflash: Gowans' "over the top" laundry list is really a rather mild set of ideas probably shared by nearly half of all Americans. It is not some far leftist manifesto. Mattp, That's why I wrote "(directly)" into local politics. I was not suggesting that JG had no business spraying here. You assumed this based on some notions/prejudices you have regarding those on the right like me and Goat. I do continue to maintain however, that JGowans should become a voting citizen....or mind his manners as I would do as a guest in another land.

The freedom to debate with all of you! The freedom to fail and end up destitute in the gutter if my ambitions wain. Oh yea! I almost forgot! I'm glad AlpineK now has the freedom to engage in sodomy in the privacy of his own house if he so chooses.

Good points by you and RobBob. I've lived here most of my adult life, but probably won't ever quite understand the desire by most Americans to nuke other nations as a way to exact revenge. That's neither here nor there though. I do understand the well of emotion. What would I change and why? - For one, the mass media. Clear Channel communication owns most of the airwaves in this country. This conglomerate is actually run by a few guys from Texas that happen to be good buddies of GW. I'd introduce some real competition into that industry. Currently, it seems that the only source for news is NPR which is quite a sad state of affairs given that so few people bother to listen to that station. Same principles apply to TV. When was the last time we actually saw a news piece about foreign countries that wasn't about us helping them, or bombing them? No, they'd rather talk about the latest Sony camcorder (I saw this yesterday) or talk about two cute little kittens born in Seattle. Where's the news? Fuck the entertainment aspect, and give us the news. Local, national, international, unbiased, objective news where we are free to filter it ourselves. - I would reduce the amount of aid we give to Israel. Currently it stands at $4Billion a year. Surely with that level of aid, we hold enough leverage to put an end to the troubles there. - I would make an honest and sincere attempt to bridge the gulf between blacks and whites in this country. Britain has just as much of a guilty history as the U.S., yet blacks are much more integrated into society there than here. If it takes raising taxes to give them decent housing and education then so be it. - I'd implement some very stringent gun laws. Currently, the U.S. experiences some 11,000 gun deaths every year. Canada has about 60. - I'd like to see us approach foreign nations with a view to establishing partnerships versus one way highways that allow our corporations to reap their natural resources for a pittance. - I'd like us to review how we operate within the international sphere of politics. Ratifying the Kyoto treaty, signing the U.N.s Child's Bills of Rights (only Iraq and the U.S. have not signed it), signing the anti-landmine bills (again, only the U.S. and I think Iran have not signed this). I could go on, but the basic point I'm making is that we only sign bills pertaining to free trade and mock every other bill that comes our way regarding human rights, torture, executing children etc. - I could think of a few more things, but let's keep the debate going... JGowans, Even as a non-citizen you are free to express your opinions in this country, but I think the "laundry list" you aired above is a bit over the top....considering you can't even vote here. In many other countries you could find yourself deported for injecting yourself (directly) into the local politics. (Mexico for instance has strict laws regarding this practice. In China, you might find yourself in prison.) When I visit Canada for instance, I live by and appreciate the system of government the citizenry there has voted upon themselves even though it doesn't fit my ideals. I am a guest, and it would be arrogant in the extreme for me to begin spouting off about a governmental system that I can't even participate in. It's called respect. It's called courtesy. Don't get me wrong! I love the debate and the fact that we are free to share our opinions. I just wish you were a little more appreciative of our system. Why don't you tell us about the things you would like to change in Scotland? Flame away.

I think it is touted by the liberal elites (especially the media) as proof that America would be better off as a socialist/collectivist nation instead of the freedom-loving, individualist country we have now (granted this idealogue is fading). They say, "see, they don't like us, we should change to be like them. Give up your freedoms." GregW, You're right about that! But how far would you be willing to go to prevent it? You obviously understand the deal, but do your kids? Will they be willing to stand up for individual liberty someday? Creeping socialism. I'm glad we have a pres. that is (mostly) willing to stand up and say "no". No to Kyoto. No to the international "court". No to the ideals of the left.

Yes, I'm Scottish by birth. Got the fucking UK passport to prove I'm a British serf, I mean subject. I came initially cos I'd never been to the U.S. I had a track scholarship. After that, when I graduated, I moved to Sweden and quickly wanted to come back because there's an energy and zeal to succeed here like no other country. However, I've come to realize that that zeal blinds all else. We purportedly live in a free nation that embodies the ideals of freedom and democracy, yet here we are being dictated to by an unelected president fuelled by a media horde that is simply not interested in presenting the news. Now, your simple answer to my criticisms might be, "Fuck off home to wherever you came from." or some such xenophobic reply, but I do love this country, and just wish that there were some things that we could change. It may be that we'll never be able to change, and indeed, the answer may well be to leave, but that's a shame because it's that very attitude that's causing such global alienation. "Fuck you all cos we're the sole hyperpower and can do whatever the fuck we want. If you don't like it, prepare to meet your maker blah blah blah." I think the educated and globally minded folks of this nation deserve much better than that. I haven't had time to read the entire thread.... Are you an American citizen yet? If not, I question the validity of your comments. ...And forgive me if I don't have time to read the book you present. I have this thing called a job which forces me to sift out the obvious garbage when selecting reading material. Tell me Gowans, have you read anything presented by the other side of the political spectrum? Are you really as open minded as you think you are? Just some friendly advice JGowans: "when in rome..."

AK I'll just bet that a lot of the same folks who don't like the 2nd ammendment.....don't like dogs on trails either. And last time I checked, Mtnchicken would not be allowed to take her dog on a trail inside a national park as that is "illegal".

Duchess, I checked it out from Orting on Friday with some high-end binoculars. Still looks nice...continuous white-snow up the gully/apron to the monster rock buttress and no apparent glare-ice or rockfall streaking. The North Mowich Icefall looked like it had recently dumped a big load onto the glacier well below the approach. There was a big shadow cast across the left handed finish on the Liberty Cap Glacier side, so I couldn't really see what it looked like. I've never done Ptarmigan, but I thought I'd pass along my observations. A small group of us is heading up the Tahoma Glacier on the 5th, 6th, and 7th. Any recent info? I could only see the upper glacier obliquely, but it looked mostly smooth.

MC, I agree with whoever gave the .38 Smith & Wesson Airweight response. You can get one with an open hammer or a shrouded "double action only" operation that won't snag on loose straps/clothing/etc. Weighs about 15oz unloaded. Stick with the standard ammo...not the "+p" stuff. I'm a big fan of .22 cal. The "deterrence" effect is just as valid, (just empty the magazine/cylinder on the attacker) and the ammo is so much lighter! You can get a small Beretta .22 semi-auto that weighs about 10oz. or a S&W .22 airweight revolver that weighs about 8ozs. Remember that the weapon is useless if it is in your pack. Keep it easily accessible. I like the Dana Design pouches that anchor between your two shoulder straps. Remember that a Washington State concealed permit overrides ANY local ordinance by law, but it is still illegal to carry a firearm in a national park. (Unfortunately, rapists, murderers, car prowlers, etc. don't seem to recognize national park boundaries as sacred.....so I don't either!) Remember also, the firearm is for protection against humans, not bears. Black bears almost never harm anyone over here, so leave them alone. I like them. Take a class. The trick is knowing friend from foe. When alone you are probably safest not exposing yourself to conversation with all-male groups. And contrary to what we've been taught all of our lives....You are allowed to judge people by their appearance, and by the company they keep! Don't forget the greatest danger lies at the trailhead. Hope this helps.

That first pic looks like the guy on "Mad" magazine (Bill), and (Hillary) "bride of Chucky".

Now that's a cool story mtneagle! Can the placement of a solitary step change the history of the world?

The guy at Bird Lake/Mirror Lake will let you in to hike or camp with the fee, but if you tell him you are climbing he'll send you back to Glenwood to get a YIN climbing permit. You will drive all the way down and then east to Glenwood only to find the tribal center is closed on Saturdays. Then you will drive back to Randle and the lady at the FS ranger station will give you an official PC script of revisionist history regarding the 1973 agreement between the tribe and the Nixon Administration/USFS. Here's how you do it: Park at Cold Springs and take the RTM eastward. When you pop out above Bird Creek Meadows area and see a bunch of "No ATV's above this point" signposts, start angling upward (left) toward the first big moraine. Now you're on your way! (and officially trespassing) About 3 or 4 easy hours to Sunrise Camp. Carry over and enjoy the long slide down the South Spur. This is how it transpired in 1999, last time I was up in the area. Have fun! ps: I'm glad someone remembers the terms of the original deal with the Yakima's. I find it ironic that it is probably easier for me to get a visa to Myanamar or Yemen than it is for me to access Yakima Indian "Nation" lands.

Thanks for the info all! I'll be up there on Sunday. Hope the weather stays west of the passes!

Is a one day up Silver Star Creek route just as feasible as the one day up Willow Creek route? It looks like a 600' lower start and one-plus extra miles in, but does the more gradual elev gain make up with faster travel? Trail in?

long slender sausage pustules of fat ooze forth glad there were no veins

Wow, I actually agree with everything AK wrote....this time.

Spend the night in the lookout on top of Three Fingers.

Does anyone know if the CCC road up the Middle Fork is open yet? I so, has anyone been up to Overcoat Peak recently? NE snowfinger, specifically.