Fairweather

Only if I can be captain for the next 3 1/2 years. Hehe.

Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained. Yea, Dave... George is a real dork! He can't even spell very good or nothin'!

I thought after a four year hiatus, you were capable of civil debate, but your "If you are going to argue this with facts, please use actual ones rather than ones you made up" snipe indicates you're just not ready.

If you are going to argue this with facts, please use actual ones rather than ones you made up. Calm down there, little miss. I believe I clearly stated, "I could be wrong". Since neither of us are lawyers, I would point out that the 'solitude' value you cite relates to the qualifications for an area to be considered for wilderness status. I would also point out that "oppurtunity for solitude" is, again, rather ambiguous.

Marylou, if you have the third (most recent, copyright 2000) edition of 100 Hikes in Washington's North Cascades Region, turn to page 141 and read Harvey's rant. It is three pages long, so I won't post it here, but his proposal is promoted by The North Cascades Conservation Council. Harvey sums up his Cascade River Road closure proposal with this: "Make no mistake, it will be achieved, one way or another." As for 'bicycles', as you well know, they weren't in any way present on trails back then. Hell, they were barely stable enough for pavement.

I hear you. But some might call that backlash. ?? Marylou, the solitude provisions in The Act are very ambiguous. Words like "should" and "must". Furthermore, I find it hard to believe that in 1964 the distinction between motorized and mechanized was part of the debate. I badly want to see the original document - not a suspect web version. I can't believe that mechanized was the original language 20 years before the advent of the mountain bike, and I can think of no other reason that specific word would be used as it relates to wilderness usage back then. ...but I could be wrong on this one.

Dark divide protection is the darling of Harvey Manning, who has been trying to rid the area of motorcycles for decades by promoting wilderness designation. This is the same Harvey Manning who wants Cascade River Road closed. Harvey writes books and makes $$$$. Harvey tells everyone how to get to the trailhead in his books, then complains that there are too many people infesting his mountains and loving them to death.

I love existing wilderness areas and want them to remain as they are, but with recreational use rules relaxed just a bit. For those here who frequent the Olympic Mountains, you certainly can appreciate how the "buffer wilderness" areas along the eastern border of ONP (Buckhorn, Brothers, Mount Skokomish Wilderness Areas) afford justifiable protection that does not exist on the west side of the park, where clearcutting and logging roads come right up to the boundary. Ditto, the Clearwater and Norse Peak at MRNP. Can you imagine Mount Adams or Glacier Peak without their designated Wilderness protections? Goat Rocks? I shudder to think. Where many proponents of designated wilderness cross the line involves the social arena. And this is where I jump ship. Once an area has been protected from the chainsaw, the shovel, and the drill, why do so many self-proclaimed purists insist on imposing their religion upon the newly saved acerage? Solitude. Mechanization prohibition. And the famous let nature take over lawsuits to prevent trail and road (read: access) repair. The only tool I have as a citizen to promote my moderate agenda vis a vis wilderness recreational use, is my witheld support of expanding the lands designated as such, writing my representatives, and promoting my beliefs in forums like this. Unfortunately, many, if not most self-described environmentalists hold the position if you're not with us, you're against us, and the insults fly as evidenced here, in this very thread.

Despite the somewhat violent, ill-willed knee-jerk responses to my post from the likes of Mr Rose, I am happy to say that I wholly support the existence of wilderness areas. If anyone would actually take the time to read what I said....and not what they think I must mean...they would understand that I simply have issues with some of the finer details of The Wilderness Act itself, and until these issues are resolved I don't want to see any more areas established. The ignorance regarding designated wilderness here is stunning, especially amongst supposed supporters of new areas. Catbird's post is a case-in-point. How many here realize that it is legal to hunt in a designated wilderness area? Horses and dogs? No problem. Existing mining and grazing claims? They are grandfathered in forever. But mountain bikes? Forget it! Clearing windfalls on trails? Better ask the local wilderness club lawyer first! And let's make sure that the local anti-social types have a strictly regulated place where they can spend days and days without seeing or having to otherwise interact with anyone else.....'solitude'.

Maybe you should examine how you separate political beliefs from personal and climbing relationships. I know dozens of climbers and hikers who believe The Wilderness Act goes too far. Especially as it relates to 'solitude' and non-motorized access. Was that your party trundling rocks down on us on The Brothers Sunday? Was that your lone white Mitsubishi Montero SUV, license plate number xxx xxx (I have the actual number) with the I vote for the environment bumper sticker at the Lena Lake trailhead Sunday night? Mr Rose, maybe you'd like to knock some sense into me all by yourself - without the aid of gravity and a shower of 30 lb rocks? I can tell you're one of those violent enviro's I love so much. What a loser.

I haven't had a chance to fly on the 777 yet. Those engines are freakin' huge. Haven't heard from you for a while! How's that CO snow? You'll be pleased to know that I am a new member of the 30+mpg car club! BTW, I forgot to ask MalCon about those Airbus composite vertical stabilizers!

Wow. A space station module that isn't even in place yet....and a website. How's that missile defense system going? Since you're not interested in ours, I thought maybe you'd now be starting your own up there, eh?

I think that was his point, more or less.

How's Canada's space program these days, eh?

I believe the Hyguens Probe that went to Titan was pretty simple as far as space vehicles go. It was launched off of the mostly American-built Cassini probe by a spring! This euro-success is akin to throwing a disposable camera out the window of a Lincoln Navigator, IMHO. And how are the euros' doing with their Mars exploration these days? What are they now...one successful orbiter and a half-dozen failures? As far as the 'Airbus biggest plane'... that can only land at a half-dozen airports in the world and guzzles more fuel per passenger than the new Boeing 787?? That's your euro-centric progress?

To the three climbers who camped at Lena Fork in a Gaurada tent last night and were the only other party on The Brothers Sunday: Don't ever let me meet or see or otherwise have contact with you. It will be bad if I do. We were the party 1000 feet below that you tried to kill by repeatedly trundling garbage-can sized boulders down the south couloir as you whooped and laughed from the large ledge just above/left of The Hourglass. Only after repeated shouts over a 10 minute period did you cease your drunken binge. Some of the boulders you were releasing started secondary slides, one which showered the area directly above us with car-battery sized rocks. Thanks. What were you thinking? This is a popular route and it is only sheer luck that other parties weren't present to dodge today's version of "fun". Your continued presence above us in the couloir made the area unsafe. Although we could have easily caught up to sloths like you and had words, we turned around. My somewhat religious brother-in-law and his 18 year old son are the only reason your unoccupied tent did not end up slashed, crapped in, or urinated on when we returned to your camp. Instead I gently placed a 10 pound rock at the peak of your tent to remind you that we were not pleased with your performance today. If you read/post here...which I doubt... try taking some common sense with you on your next mountain adventure. And fuck off.

Hmmmm.... Seek counseling? Exercise more? Consume only the calories daily that your body needs to maintain the proper weight? Take a little responsibility for yourself? Mebbe try some compassion bro, some folks due to genetics, rare illness or thyroid issues cannot and are doomed to suffer. Granted the bulk of the US is obese due to ignorance, laziness, lack of will/spine, education, etc etc but there are some folks the cannot and will never apply too. I am assuming your condescending comments are not directed at them My comments were not condesending. Some of the posts made by others were. I was simply making the point that a politically correct, bleeding heart approach will likely not work for this woman, and quite possibly will prolong her condition. The likelyhood that this woman suffers from a genetic condition is remote given the obese nature of our nation, and even if this is the case, my comments were directed at the hopelessness of posts like yours made in the subject's name. When all else fails, maybe a little shame is the right prescription?

If only things were so simple. Then simpletons with simplistic answers would be right more often, and making fun of fat people might make more sense... Seems to me that your position is this: "There's nothing that poor thing can do about her weight so we should all simply offer her our sympathy." Since you have offered no solution to her problem, as I have, I am forced to conclude it is you that is a simpleton.

Meanwhile, your pot-smoking friends in Alberta kill 4 good men from the RCMP. Any blood on your hands, Dru?

Hmmmm.... Seek counseling? Exercise more? Consume only the calories daily that your body needs to maintain the proper weight? Take a little responsibility for yourself?

Sorry Will, but your doom/gloom scenario is old-school. Iran will reform from within. The citizenry there are generally good people who are on the brink of an awakening. The mullahs are on the way out. North Korea will be reigned in by China soon enough. Interesting to watch PLA troop movements along the N Korean border when big brother doesn't get the proper response from its rabid-dog neighbor to the south. And if little Kim-Jong tries to hand a nuke over to Al-Queda, well, GW will rightfully incinerate his ass with a couple of W-88's. We'll deal with Syria in the shadows. No major troop action there. Sure, we may drop a bomb or two to let Basher know where he stands, but our Israeli friends know how to handle the kid. I won't attempt to address the economic side of your post other than to say that China and virtually all other nations still seem to think that financing American debt is a safe investment. That said, I absolutely do share your aprehension about our debt-binge now approaching 7 trillion $$.($7,000,000,000,000 ...wow!) The projected annual budget surpluses of Clinton's last term should have been immediately commited to token debt-reduction. And now for my prediction on the next flare up involving American troops....... Venezuela

I found this image online. The author erroneously labeled the picture as "Mount Queets", but it is clearly a picture of the Valhallas, Geri-Freki Glacier, and much of the ridge traverse toward the Olympus Massif that you are looking to do. I'm not sure which Olympus summit he took the image from. (probably Athena or east peak?) I don't recall this spectacular view of The Valhallas from the west peak. Again; not my image! Thought it might be of interest to this thread though. Right click properties to link to the author's website.

Just some advice: have a second person standing by with a vacuum hose as you trim/re-trim your skins, or at least vacuum them well before you peel 'em off each time. My BCA skins gave off a lot of fiber/dust as I cut and I contaminated the glue when I pulled the fuckers off to reposition them. I'm not sure if all brands are this flakey....or if I was just bone-headed.

Wow. That pic looks like classic Olympic Mtn wild/mysterious. Thanks. Do you have any thoughts on your route versus S Fk Hoh? Which would you try if you were to return to The Valhallas? Was the Queets River ford easy enough? That South Fork Hoh route looks like it really narrows down at a couple of the river bends. I remember reading about a guy falling to his death on the hike out over 20 years ago. If I recall, he was close to climbing every named Oly summit over 5000 feet!

So now you wish to change the language and definitions of wilderness within The Act itself? Until recreational access and 'solitude' provisions of TWA are clearly defined, I will continue to write letters to my representatives and speak out against the creation of any new wilderness areas.