specialed

That's funny though. I can just imagine some fat ass climber slobbering through a bucket o'deep fried chicken parts and tossin em off the rock. Thats not a bad idea, greasing up the thank-god buckets on climbs with chicken grease and hiding in the bushes for a laugh.

You just got to watch out for all those darn nazis in Tacoma, oh wait I didn't mean to use a racial slur

I won't hit someone from Tacoma, they've got enough problems already.

Wreck beach in Vancouver - nudity, drugs, alcohol, water. Good clean fun.

a racial slur? Don't think so bro. Why don't you look up the definition of that term (i.e. pertainting to one's ethnic background). That would be impossible since I don't make those sort of comments, and I don't know and don't care what race you are.

Thanks for the your anal retentive correction Erik. They also allow dogs into restaurants and bars in Europe. They worship cows in India whats your fucking point?

What! the man who chases the great Yeti is boring? Give him a break, he's German, he lost his sense of humor in the war, or lack of O2 or something. It is a good quote though.

Except that unnecessary bolting is "the murder of the impossible"

You too can be the inspiration for his next hit song!

OS - There are sport climbs at Index, but its mostly a traditional area. There's beautiful granite cracks and stiff ratings. If that's not your thing, you might want to check out Exit 38 and some other areas around Mt. Si for bolted sport climbing. Smoot's Falcon Press Washington Rock Guide is a good intro to various climbing areas in western Washington and the rest of the state.

Tons of sport climbing Officespace, you should go out there and get on one called Slow Children, its only 10d.

Maybe the Brits have it right with their E ratings. That makes a lot of sense to have a pure difficulty rating, regardless of danger, then a seperate commitment or danger rating. I also think that a lot of people involved in drilling these days act autonomously, away from the main established climbing community. These "ascenscionists" have learned their skills in a gym and are mostly ispired by the ethics that are popular indoors and on modern, steep, sport crags. They are ignorant about the values and rich history climbing has. Its one thing to drill a new route or retrobolt if your actions are premeditated, discussed, and accepted. But "renegade" drilling, espescially on protectable rock, is unacceptable and shouldn't be tolerated. There isn't a lot of mutual ground on this issue and this sort of thing shouldn't be validated by being passive or worried about aggression begating agression. It needs to be nipped in the bud.

More details Greg. What happened?

I just though it was a remnant from the old days of the quarry. Where they used to store equipment and shit. But all the other ideas are a hell of a lot more interesting.

Sorry that was a typo. I meant your naziesque comment, not you nazi... You'd really kick a sweet dog ambling over to you to say hi? Dude your sad. You should seek professional anger management counseling.

You could definetly do worse things. Like drill bolts next to protectable cracks.

I agree thats way lame and irresponsible of that dude in Yosemite. If your dogs an asshole leave him at home. Fortunatly, most dogs I've encountered in the outdoors are way cool because they get out a lot and have cool owners. Erik, whats your point? I respect leash laws at Wash. State parks (except Index because its really not enforced at all). But I don't see a big problem with dogs at crags that we need to ban dogs or make stiffer leash laws. If your dog is active and hyper, run him before you get to the crag to he'll be chill when he's there and you can tie him up. Whats the big deal? If he can't handle it, maybe he should stay home. I don't think its wrong to tie a dog up at a crag if its an enforced law - like at Smith. You didn't say you hated dogs, but you naziesque comment dogs should be at home or on a leash, is a little less than warm and friendly.

Bolt everything Posted By: Tyler Date Posted: 06/28/2001 If a piece of rock big enough to climb is solid enough to hold a bolt, then it should be grid-bolted. I mean, at least one bolt for every 3-4 square feet man, or maybe more in regions containing high populations of pygmies or other short-types. I think that in California the Forest Service should pay for the bolting (I mean, all those "Adventure Pass" dollars might as well be used for something that benefits sport climbers). The reasoning behind my solution is more solid than most American sport-climbs, and can be distilled down to a single sentence: camming devices are expensive, and most climbers these days are too inept to place them correctly, not to mention other more cerebral gear like sliders, nuts, etc. Quite frankly, I've seen as many nauseating zippers and ground falls on parallel A0 crack climbs as I care to, and I'm tired of trying to convince my loved ones that I am somehow different or safer than the hordes of unprepared climbers who skip giddily to the cliffs with a bright set of cams and a not-so-bright light behind the eyes. Let 'em clip 1/2 inch bolts, enough said. You Believe this shit!!! I don't! What a bunch of crap. I say lets find out who this guy is and round up a posse. BTW, I gave those fuckers a piece of my mind. http://www.rockandice.com/index.phtml?section=community

Erik, I have had many many experiences with dogs and climbing (crags and other). I have never seen one incident that would lead me to believe that dogs and cragging are incompatible. While some dogs are worse than others and can be territtorial and aggressive, a responsible dog owner should know that and take appropriate action. Its too bad if you or Dru has had bad experiences with dogs at the crags - but does one bad dog or their owner mean that every dog is bad? Its been my experience that people who don't like dogs are mean-spirited assholes. I'm sure there's exceptions, and maybe your it. I wouldn't judge you personally becuase you don't like dogs, so don't conclude that all dogs are territorial and aggressive because that's just not true. And what do you mean dogs should only be at home or on a leash. There are plenty of times when it is appropriate to let dogs run free. I can't believe you or anyone would actually believe that. And even if you did bring your dog to the crag and tied them up, what's wrong with that? Most dogs would rather do that than sit around at home. And how is a dog sitting in the great outdoors really going to affect someones allergies? Thats a huge load of horseshit. If you knew anything about dogs, which you obviously don't, you'd know that dogs can be aggressive and territorial in the places they a. live, and b. eat. Dogs generally won't consider that crag as a "kingdom", that title would be reserved for their home. Its too bad you don't realize how terrific the companionship of a dog can be. But if I want to take my well-behaved dog to the crag and its legal I sure as hell am going to even if it pisses off the stone-hearted dog haters like you who, thank god, are few and far between. [This message has been edited by specialed (edited 07-05-2001).]

You need to stop going to places like that. Just remove yourself from the situation and pretend it doesn't exist. Because you're right, Seattle has more than its share of wannabe's and clueless grid-bolt followers.

How many bolts were placed on DDD in how long of a climb? Did they replace shaky pins or nasty rp placements or what?

I'm at work, I can't go climbing!

Strickland, how's your finger? you want to combine your trip up here with some climbin? Colchuck or somethin else [This message has been edited by specialed (edited 07-03-2001).]

PP: what would you rather have? someone who declares their intentions, listens to input and discussion, then makes a decision; or someone who makes a rash action first, then talks about it afterwards? The Captain was just getting input from the climbing community before he ran out and chopped, instead of vice-versa.

Hey Peter Puget, I know you weren't defending over-bolting or condemning all bolt-chopping, I just wanted to state my opinion, it wasn't directed specifically at you at all. But you said, "Seems like it [bolts]could have been removed easily without a posse or such a large number of declarations of intent." Before you implied that bolt choppers need to stand up publicly and take responsibility for chopping. I'm lost, which one do you think is better? public responsibility and declared intent, or anonymous action. Anyway, it sounds like everyone's more or less on the same page on this, so no point in arguing.