specialed

Sorry that was a typo. I meant your naziesque comment, not you nazi... You'd really kick a sweet dog ambling over to you to say hi? Dude your sad. You should seek professional anger management counseling.

You could definetly do worse things. Like drill bolts next to protectable cracks.

I agree thats way lame and irresponsible of that dude in Yosemite. If your dogs an asshole leave him at home. Fortunatly, most dogs I've encountered in the outdoors are way cool because they get out a lot and have cool owners. Erik, whats your point? I respect leash laws at Wash. State parks (except Index because its really not enforced at all). But I don't see a big problem with dogs at crags that we need to ban dogs or make stiffer leash laws. If your dog is active and hyper, run him before you get to the crag to he'll be chill when he's there and you can tie him up. Whats the big deal? If he can't handle it, maybe he should stay home. I don't think its wrong to tie a dog up at a crag if its an enforced law - like at Smith. You didn't say you hated dogs, but you naziesque comment dogs should be at home or on a leash, is a little less than warm and friendly.

Bolt everything Posted By: Tyler Date Posted: 06/28/2001 If a piece of rock big enough to climb is solid enough to hold a bolt, then it should be grid-bolted. I mean, at least one bolt for every 3-4 square feet man, or maybe more in regions containing high populations of pygmies or other short-types. I think that in California the Forest Service should pay for the bolting (I mean, all those "Adventure Pass" dollars might as well be used for something that benefits sport climbers). The reasoning behind my solution is more solid than most American sport-climbs, and can be distilled down to a single sentence: camming devices are expensive, and most climbers these days are too inept to place them correctly, not to mention other more cerebral gear like sliders, nuts, etc. Quite frankly, I've seen as many nauseating zippers and ground falls on parallel A0 crack climbs as I care to, and I'm tired of trying to convince my loved ones that I am somehow different or safer than the hordes of unprepared climbers who skip giddily to the cliffs with a bright set of cams and a not-so-bright light behind the eyes. Let 'em clip 1/2 inch bolts, enough said. You Believe this shit!!! I don't! What a bunch of crap. I say lets find out who this guy is and round up a posse. BTW, I gave those fuckers a piece of my mind. http://www.rockandice.com/index.phtml?section=community

Erik, I have had many many experiences with dogs and climbing (crags and other). I have never seen one incident that would lead me to believe that dogs and cragging are incompatible. While some dogs are worse than others and can be territtorial and aggressive, a responsible dog owner should know that and take appropriate action. Its too bad if you or Dru has had bad experiences with dogs at the crags - but does one bad dog or their owner mean that every dog is bad? Its been my experience that people who don't like dogs are mean-spirited assholes. I'm sure there's exceptions, and maybe your it. I wouldn't judge you personally becuase you don't like dogs, so don't conclude that all dogs are territorial and aggressive because that's just not true. And what do you mean dogs should only be at home or on a leash. There are plenty of times when it is appropriate to let dogs run free. I can't believe you or anyone would actually believe that. And even if you did bring your dog to the crag and tied them up, what's wrong with that? Most dogs would rather do that than sit around at home. And how is a dog sitting in the great outdoors really going to affect someones allergies? Thats a huge load of horseshit. If you knew anything about dogs, which you obviously don't, you'd know that dogs can be aggressive and territorial in the places they a. live, and b. eat. Dogs generally won't consider that crag as a "kingdom", that title would be reserved for their home. Its too bad you don't realize how terrific the companionship of a dog can be. But if I want to take my well-behaved dog to the crag and its legal I sure as hell am going to even if it pisses off the stone-hearted dog haters like you who, thank god, are few and far between. [This message has been edited by specialed (edited 07-05-2001).]

You need to stop going to places like that. Just remove yourself from the situation and pretend it doesn't exist. Because you're right, Seattle has more than its share of wannabe's and clueless grid-bolt followers.

How many bolts were placed on DDD in how long of a climb? Did they replace shaky pins or nasty rp placements or what?

I'm at work, I can't go climbing!

Strickland, how's your finger? you want to combine your trip up here with some climbin? Colchuck or somethin else [This message has been edited by specialed (edited 07-03-2001).]

PP: what would you rather have? someone who declares their intentions, listens to input and discussion, then makes a decision; or someone who makes a rash action first, then talks about it afterwards? The Captain was just getting input from the climbing community before he ran out and chopped, instead of vice-versa.

Hey Peter Puget, I know you weren't defending over-bolting or condemning all bolt-chopping, I just wanted to state my opinion, it wasn't directed specifically at you at all. But you said, "Seems like it [bolts]could have been removed easily without a posse or such a large number of declarations of intent." Before you implied that bolt choppers need to stand up publicly and take responsibility for chopping. I'm lost, which one do you think is better? public responsibility and declared intent, or anonymous action. Anyway, it sounds like everyone's more or less on the same page on this, so no point in arguing.

I don't know about chopping that 10b next to dogleg. Its one thing to bolt some random toprope, its another to bolt a historical tespiece that was freed in the 60's, has and is done on lead.

No shit, I think the headpoint technique is way better than bolts. There's a shit-ton of well-bolted 10d's and 11's at crags all across the country for people who want to clmb that way. Every climb at every crag in the world doesn't have to be tamed by bolts. That really pisses me off.

Fuckin lame. I guess we should change the name to Aaron's Happy Joy Cheerful Flower Sunshine Direct, because the old name no longer applies. I'll volunteer to help chop that route.

NOone was arguing for bolts, but you were claiming bolt choppers were primarily motivated by their own egos as opposed to a worthy ideal. I'm just saying I agree with chopping in many instances as well as the ideas that fuel that action. Capt: what's the DDD route all about? [This message has been edited by specialed (edited 07-03-2001).]

I have to side with the Captain on this one. The fewer bolts the better. Climbing shouldn't be packaged for mass consumption. Just because its so easy to place bolts these days doesn't mean we should. If a route has no or a few bolts and its considered committing or dangerous, so be it. We shouldn't make it "safe" and easy for everyone. If someone's out chopping bolts maybe the dudes who overdrill will think twice next time.

I don't understand why you'd want to shoot something if you can't eat it. From what I understand, male moose don't taste that good.

I don't understand what the point is. Everyone knows they're fake. Even if she wasn't a well-known person, most people can tell they're fake by looking at them, its so tacky, like wearing way too much makeup. Bobby Boobsman has always struck me as somewhat ditzy and superficial. She gave slide show a couple years ago in Missoula, and got heckled the whole time. She would say shit like, "you can't call yourself a climber unless you've climbed in Yosemite." People were yelling "Bullshit" at her right in the middle of her presentation. Kind of rude, but kind of funny.

i wonder if you can rent out a climbing gym for a party. Or maybe have the party at someone's house who has a wall. Or maybe get a big spotlight and have the party at Index and set up a bunch of topropes. Or not.

I'd go, but I don't think I'd ever hear the end of it from my girlfriend for going to a party with people I met on the inernet.

Yeah the dogpark is probably the pinnacle of most dog's existance.

Right, right. Yeah that one is worthless. The crappy slot leading to the sandbox, yugh! Rapping TC would totally be doable, but I think (though I haven't done it) GD is more direct and straight. Probably should just start rapping and use whatever anchors you happen to come across

bolt ladder. Exposed. lame? you be the judge

Good point. maybe "technically" you wouldn't have done it all clean in that scenario. But you're right, the line between clean and not clean can be pretty blurry. Espescially if you smeared shit all over it [This message has been edited by specialed (edited 07-02-2001).]

Not to be a nit-picky anal retard, but the route's definetly not clean, there's tons of fixed shit on it. But its hammerless, cause you don't have to put anymore shit in it.