Cpt.Caveman

Bring back reality.* I agree. I have ALWAYS said that EVERYBODY has a valid opinion on these matters, whether they have been climbing for 30 days or 30 years. I have NEVER said I have any particular expertise when it comes to ethics. I DO NOT maintain that Pope and Dwayner should not be able to say what they think, but only that they should not be allowed to carry on in a way that appears intended to stop others from doing so. I ENCOURAGE others to express their opinions and to engage in debates on this site. *A famous song by either Snakefinger or the Residents. Good stuff! Matt every time they disagree with you you proclaim them saboteurs or something silly. I think you are on the other side of the fence as them and that is all I am pointing out. You do in fact make your comments of sabotage or whatever words you want in order to toss aside any relevence to what they say. And if it's not the desire then it is the perception I get you are moving towards.

My opinions below. I started this thread with the hope that it would be a good starting place for discussion if not debate. I endeavor to be honest and fair in my comments. I do not think that has been the case for others here on cc.com. There is no reason for these debates to be accusatory and acrimonious. Yet they are. That is the true “nonsense”. Of course it's not the case. Nobody has to follow a set of rules to discuss what they think, want, prefer, dislike, etc. I think that yes there were some accusatory comments made and they were not nonsense. It just seems that some of the people here don't agree with you sometimes and have obviously made comments you dislike or would rather not be seen here. Perhaps there was an exchange in the past that left others with a sour taste in their mouth. But that doesn't mean that their opions and comments should be cast aside. Cracked ask yourself why others putting up FAs don’t post here? They might be out climbing. Dislike the internet. Or could care less about rock police enforcement. They may or may not seem to feel the need to ask a "climbing community" of communities that can't even agree. Again I get the impression you might have all the answers by reading this discussion. SO then it makes it a discusion of what you are going to do and why. Not really a discussion. I absolutely hate these bolting issues but finally decided I should say something. I start otu with a list of transgressions and end with "hey I wasn't accsuing you.." Bolting debates, discussion, topic and flame wars might be a thing of neverending sparring.

From the impression I get in this forum the only people allowed to be on the committees are the ones wielding drills or the ones that just want more bolts.

I think the rock cop incident is definitely a factor to discuss, as is the Mattp claim that pope and dwayner are here to sabotage. There's some interesting drama\soap opera. I think it all ties together especially when mattp and darylc are implying outwardly they are the experts in the bolt debate subject and should have the say what is read here - or what is weeded out. That sums up one sided debates where mattp and darylc win win. It's full of it. Get a grip. Bring back the reality.

You are absolutely WRONG. There is no plan, nor intention, nor conspiracy to sabotage any discussion. I welcome and encourage all discussions on the subject and insist on my right to contribute my viewpoints, whether YOU and your pals like them or not. Does cc.com do any climbing "community" public relations favors with its constant vulgarity and threatening and inane posts? It's a fact, eh? Read my comments above. If you fancy yourself a mind-reader or a psychoanalyst, keep your day job. - Dwayner Teehee- Man I actually think your comments Mattp are a little overboard sabotage and all.

Skinny fucks are aid they whine about the cold and need more food then it's been gone for a day or 3.

I am not making an argument. This is in WA.

Cheers to the guys doing Lib Crack this morning. My guess rain did not stop those boys from Idaho. Hi to all those we saw. Thanks to those that let us pass and again cheers to those that passed us (Lib Crack folks).

I dont take pictures of myself. I prefer to take scenery photos. I thought my scenery photos were better than the climbing ones. But I am not sharing. Here is another photo of some dude.

Crag

He is. And a friendly fast light. Mark Twight would beg to keep up with him on a dirt trail. Maybe he should write the fast and light "ethics" book next. A response to Mark Twight's book.

I go SLOW and LIGHT everywhere. I think it's great. I have some experience. I think it's ok if I guage it correctly. I think I know what I can do with what gear. Some people would consider me on the edge and some that know me a cold sleeper with enough gear to do the job. I have not much experience so I must state that twice. For all the naysayers remember that fat people can climb light too. As long as they know when to do it and hopefully not to get rescued. I am not saying I might not get a rescue call one day. It's easy for the masses to criticize and ridicule some people about rescues. But some deserve it too. If I felt unerequipped and or underexperienced and had a rescue I would certainly admit it FIRST thing. I still go SLOW and LIGHT. Hurray for the light pack guys doing the same thing safely. It only takes a brain most of the time.

I am now declaring myself king of all bolting. That means the bolt wars go away. Here's some bolts we need- Nowhere Here's some bolts worth ripping out and putting in a museum- Beckey Bolt on Slesse ( I tried )

I have been restoring my mind to the beauty of the mountains for the past 2 years. I hope you guys can figure this discussion out. Meanwhile I will continue to keep my restoration going. If you bolt clippers and bolt choppers and bolt removers want to climb shit let me know. But I dont want to hear your rants when we go climbing. This is a good place for it though. I rapped off a bolt yesterday. I guess I am guilty of sport climbing for using it but that is ok with me. I still think that "Peter Puget" is pretty manipulative with words and is sometimes full of shit but I think at least Perkins has some good points, arguments, and respectful criteria to base his arguments upon in contrast to Peter PumperPubicHair. Firstmost allowing himself to discuss things with his real name.

Ok the lineup but those are boring unless you live in Vancouver.

Hope Prusik was fun Juan.

Juan, My partner says you got lapped twice.

More photo

More photo.

My friend Jim and I made some fun easy roadside climbs this saturday. We met some nice people and climbed a few summits in a liesurely fashion\pace. We were unable to determine where the original route on Lexington but whatever. I will attach and post some photos. Everybody here has probably climbed these. This post is for you Juan aka Juan Two Punch aka John Sharp.

I'll be bellyjamming some granite at mach speed -10.

It's a nice route. Big jugs (*)(*) but still kinda hard.

Hey bud. Take it easy now I think you've been hooked on the trolling line.

We had some interesting downclimbing. Then rapped the Beckey Route on the Special with pms and the fifi hook and a 30 meter line with a tiny stopper shoved behind the boulder above the tunnel back down and then another fifi hook special to the area where the red lichen traverse is. If someone's going to advocate bolts in the wilderness this might be the one worth arguing over. - expect some spray - In short I'll chime in again and say the Boxtop was trickier than what Beckey lead me to believe in his book. It was fun to tunnel through the mountain though

They got a light shell at REI for 30$. I think they're still there because most people who shop there feel the need to spend 300$ instead.