Lambone

Hey, just curious... How do these threads keep changing names?

Although I love BD stuff, and own alot of it. I think it's kind of refreshing to go into a shop and not see BD stuff plastered all over the walls. PMS has more stuff from small manufacturers, usualy hard too find, and often made in the US. Thats one of the reasons I'd go you PMS over other shops. Not to look for the same old Patagughi stuff, aor BD Camolots. However, in all the shops I've worked at, Camolots were allways the best sellers...

I've been looking into new boots latel also. I'd say thet are more medium weight. They are pretty bomber durablity wise. But I have heard the suck to walk long distances in because they don't have much rocker. Take a look at the Trango S, or Extreme. Both are lighter. The Extreme is probably beter than the S for wet snowy conditions. Kayland makes an awsome boot also, too bad Feathered Friends stopped carrying them.

I'm not so sure Jim is outright against BD stuff, although he may be. What I do know is that it can be difficult as a small retailer to meet BD's minimum order size. Tere is alot more that goes on behind the scense regarding buying merchandise at wholesale. Jim may be part of a buying group that does not distribute BD. Anyway, that is just all speculation...the stuff he does carry kicks ass, and fills the gaps that all the other shops miss, the best light stuff around. It looks like PMS is sporting the Leashless Grivel tools and aluminum 'poons up there...nice!

Bolt_Clipper, What kind of gloves were you trying the Ergos with? I think they are fine with a thinner type glove. I also like the Cobra grip over the Rage type. Not because it is less pumpy to hold onto, but becasue it seems to put less preasure on your fingers. Thin grips hurt my fingers more on Steep ice. Got some ideas from Mike at FF today about modifying the Cobra, thanks Mike. He basicaly cut the BD Ice clipper appart and Hose Clamped one end to the shaft of the Cobra. He also took the hammer piece off and used a regular nut to fasten the pick. Then he wrapped the shaft in hockey tape. Sounds cool, I may try it. I like that it is temporary!

haha

P.S. the most recent avalance advisory suggests the same advice... sorry, but I don't have time to search out the link. Also, don't bring your soft shell!

Col, I'd probly stay on snow that is over rocks. It will be much more firmly anchored than snow over ice/snow left over from the summer. I almost got taken out by a huge slide skiing after the first storm of the season in the Rockies. It was 2 ft of windslab on top of summer ice. Oh what an ignorant fool I was, worse yet I actualy was the one who convinced my friends that it was a good idea. The slab missed us by a hair as we were hiking up to ski it a second time... Take that shit seriously!

You could probably expect it tobe loaded with a good amount of windblown snow on top of an ice crust. So if you like that sortathing...go for it!

Iwant...I wan't...I want... Charlet Ergo's and Trango Ice boots. But I won't be getting either this year. Ill be happy just to go climb some Ice in Montana over Christmas.

I hope to use my firnds Ergo's next week in Bozeman. I'll let you know what i think about the swing... Damn, i wish I was sponsord...he gets all the cool new shit.

Back Country Outfitters???

Yeah, we all have eaten acid and watched the Wall at some point....but it's my least favorite Floyd album.

Nice dude, but git rid of that gnarly avatar image, it's freaking me out...

Ok, bickerers...stay on topic here or go bicker at eachother in Spray. I have always been impressed with how windproof schoeler fabric is. I've had a pair of Pat. Talus pants for years and they still work great. I'm not sold on the jacket concept though. They seem to heavy. I like the windshirt witha light shell option. My .02$ Oh and Layton, not all retail employees are clueless.

Who is that gaper???

That is very cool. Good luck Erden. Just getting to the base would make the trip a success!

Yeah...two sets of tools...dream, drool...wake up...shit back to reality...only if... Yeah, if I was Bill Gates I'd have Ergo's for 1 pitch ice craggin and Cobras for everything else. But for now I will just havta suffer with Cobras

My buddy Derek initiated that whole diversion process a long time ago, and it created quite the local controversy. Season after season he would rebuild it, and it would be torn down by rightious activist types. Eventualy he filled the diversion channels in with cement. He carried all the bags of concrete up there on his back in the summer. After that people gave up tearing it down, and now lots of climbers have a blast going up those pilers. Overall it doesn't really alter the watershed, much.

Yeah wayne, and you are probably right. I've seen other folks argue that Chris mac's new Supertopos have increased traffic on Yosemite's classic routes. But those kind of statements kind of bother me, because there really is no proof to back it up. You'd havta go out there and question every party on the climb to find out where people had heard about the route, and where they got information on conditions and such. I'm sure many would say Supertopo's or cascadeclimbers. But without knowing for sure, it's just kind of a broad generalization. I'd be willing to bet that most of the climber population near the Cascades doesn't wait until conditions are posted here before going out to a climb, but maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, glad you had fun and didn't get clobbered by falling ice!

Bronco, The ice on those variations to G1 is formed by diverting the creek. I beieved the guy who put it in set it up so that the water can sort of be turned on or off, by rediverting it. they will turn it off during the day while climbing, and on at night to let it fatten up. I'm pretty sure this is what he ment, but I could be wrong. Did you catch the guys name?

I would say that the greatest benefit for me is being able to let go of the tool, drop my hands low, shake out, and get the blood back in my fingers. I do this all the time when I'm not using leashes, and my fingers stay alot warmer. Plus you can choke up and match on one tool, and other neat stuff like that. I think I use about the same amount of energy with or without leashes. Climbing without them just makes me concentrate on standing on my feet more. But mostly it's just more fun, for some odd mental sorta reason. kinda like climbing trad instead of sport, or tele skiing instead of alpine. Greater margin for error, and less room to be lazy or un focused. Just my opinion.

Now Jens...come on, thats about the silliest thing I have ever seen you post here. Don't make me call in the whhhaaaaammmbulance... I pretty much disagree with every point you just made. First, if you are limiting your leashless climbing to home woodies and indoor foam walls, well you either lack vision, or really do need the whambulance. Second, ice climbing is an inherently wet endeavor. I don't care where you are, Rockies, Cascades, Canada, Europe....whatever. Ice melts, the water drips on you, and you get wet. Your gloves get wet, your underwear gets wet, your tools get wet...and you deal with it. Arn't those pictures of you climbing in a t-shirt in Hylatie last week? Don't try and tell me that the ice wasn't dripping on you up there. Temps in the Rockies can go from well below freezing to 50 degrees f during a sunny day. Infact, from my experience, I only remained dry about 10% of the time climbing in Hyalite. Usualy when it was below 0 degrees. So in other words, I'm not buyin that excuse.(Although I might use it later on sometime ) And third, I don't beleive that leashless climbing should or will be limited to steep mixed routes. Albeit I have'nt done much leashless climbing(on lead that is) yet, but it seems to me that going leashless on standard waterfall ice is not only more fun, but has alot the same benefits as it does on steep rock. I'm not strong enough for those big number steep climbs, and I don't plan on training that hard to get there. But going sans leashes seems like another way to revisit the feelings of insequrity that climbing moderate water ice used to give me. With leashes it's just allways bomber, unchalenging, and just starts to get boring. Now don't take this personaly Jens. I agree that wet shafts are slipperier, which is why I 'm wondering how tools can be modified (at home) inorder to negate the slipperiness. This thread was just ment to get some ideas flowing, while wating for winter to come to our neck of the woods. Have fun, climb on!

Don't worry about it

Wayne, Too crowded, yes... But was it really because of this web site? Or because conditions are about as good as they could be for this time of year, and the climb is in the Selected Climbs...what did you expect? From the description it sounds like the Black Ice Coulior of the Cascades. What alpine climber in their right mind would not have wanted to be out there on the 8th of December... For that matter, perhaps you should get more specific with your acusation. Yeah, go ahead...just blame it on Colin. Hell he soloed the route and called it "easy"...if he can do it sans rope, we all should be able to right! Shoulda been at Big 4 with TLG, Scot'terx and the rest of the crew, it was a swingin good time!