Tod

Nice trip report. Good to meet both of you on the way down!

I was figuring it was some sort of group or club, to many people not to be. It was kind of funny/scary looking at one of their camps. It looked like it was on the edge of the lake, where the ice/snow always seems to be the thinnest. Looks like you made pretty good time. We ended our day at Heidelburger also, but we weren't as lucky to be climbing with our girlfriends at Castle Rock.

That'll be cool to see. Where were you when you took the photo? I saw multiple groups (15+ people total) heading up Colchuck via the glacier. I also saw Stephen_Ramsey heading up the Colchuck NE Coulior (said hi to him on the way down from the lake ). There were a lot of camps and tents up there over the weekend. Busy place....

iceguy and dbb’s TR were really great and the conditions/look of the route have not changed since last week. Brief TR of Dragontail/TC for Sunday April 27, my buddy JB and myself: Left Seattle at 2am, started heading up the trail at 5:20. It took us about 3 hours to get to the lake and after taking a break and then heading across the lake to the route we started on the route at a little after 9am. There were soft snow conditions up all three couloirs since there has been a bit of new snow all week and cool temps. The ice runnels were in great condition. Some styrofoam ice and some water-ice. In places it was a bit thin, but overall lots of fun. There weren’t many options for pro so we ended up simulclimbing the first pitch and a half and then belayed the crux with a picket anchor and a tied off screw and one .75 cam for pro. The belay at the top wasn’t much better, a picket. After the crux ice between couliors one and two we simulclimbed the rest of the route. We summitted a little before 1pm with a micro blizzard bearing down on us. The glissade down Aasgard was great, very soft snow… We were back at the car at 5pm and in town by 8pm. Second time on the route and it still is one of my favorites!

A buddy of mine and I climbed Dragontail/TC yesterday. No pictures, but the look, conditions and route were exactly the same as when iceguy and dbb were up there on 4/20, great snow/ice/alpine conditions. It's snowed a few times in the last week, and there was new snow/powder from the lake to the summit. Some nice deep powder from the Aasgard pass elevation up. They've got pictures in the Alpine Lakes Forum, Triple Couloirs - 4/20/03 post. They've also got a great TR with pictures on dbb's website here.

7-8 years ago I climbed Glacier from Seattle to Seattle in 23:45 hours. I forgot what my time was from car to car, but I figure with the drive time (3 hours?) I probably did it in less than 16-18 hours (including the 2+ nap/passout on the summit). I think remember summiting at 10am and heading down at 1pm, but that could be all wrong since I didn't write any of it down to remember. Sometime after that, a group of 4 of us climbed up Baker via CD Seattle to Seattle in well less than 24 hours. Not to hard to do that since their is less elevation gained and less trail mileage. I guess back then we were more interested in making sure we were not out of town for more than 24 hours .

A couple of things I found out about the NCNP rangers last year are: -The head backcountry ranger reads and posts to this website regularly during the climbing season. -When you stop and talk with the rangers in the field they are generally pretty cool. -What they tell you in the field is not what the head ranger will do (i.e., they'll you that you will receive a warning and that you can continue on, but the head ranger will instead send you a ticket). -The head ranger's image in my mind is that of a cop who is trying to reach her ticket quota. I'm all for what I hope the backcountry permit system is supposed to represent, minimum impact, but the implementation of it is a sham. Now that I've been lied to by the NCNP I wonder why I should be honest with them in the future, permit or not. For high impact areas (Boston Basin, Cascade Pass, etc..), permits are a must and should be followed otherwise the wilderness area that we have every right to explore will be lost for generations. For areas mostly inaccessible to the average hiker/climber and not impacted as such, permits have very little use. As far as the Trail Park Pass Demo Program goes, one thing should be known about this program, it's a demonstration program, this means that it is not law. By purchasing a Trail Park Pass you are demonstrating that you agree with the program and that it is working (essentially voting yes). By sending in your "ticket" to your local congressman (with an attached letter) you are voicing your disapproval to the program. Unless the ticket has been written by the local sheriff, the tickets are not enforceable. I have seen the GAO reports recently, but in the past, most of the money that was collected from the Trail Park Pass Demo Program went into administering it, not to trail and trailhead maintenance. Hopefully this has changed, but I would love to see a recent report on this if anyone knows of one.

I wouldn't rely on being able to punch through possible layers of ice and hard snow to create a snow cave on the lower/middle slopes of Liberty Ridge. Unless you've heard of a reliable report that the snow is easy to dig in (not likely), digging snow caves tend to be a pain in the *ss. Digging ledges and and creating snow walls or even small/partial igloos can be much easier and very sufficient. A few years back, a buddy of mine and I got a good weather window and took the bare minimum up Liberty Ridge (no tent, day packs, etc.) and ended up digging ledges and using bivy sacks. The walls we created from the excavated snow worked well to keep out most of the wind.

Any clue on how many climbers are really in the Tacoma area? I've got a few friends down in Tacoma that climb and I know there are the occasional cc'er pub clubs that are hosted in Tacoma. How many climbers show up to drink and talk climbing at the Tacoma pub club (that are from Tacoma?).

This is really pretty funny to read considering the consequences of stating that the if the only way to complete the Ptarmigan Traverse is by following the same route and climbing the same peaks as the original route. If that is the case then really only a small fraction (if any) of the people who have done the Ptarmigan Traverse have actually done it. I don't buy that.... If that's the case then there ought to be signs at either end stating "You think you just did the Ptarmigan Traverse, but you really didn't". I wonder how long that would last. A traverse is from point A to point B. A climb is from bottom to top, and then you eventually have to come down. If you traverse the Pickets, you aren't required to climb any peaks to complete it (though you probably will have to). If you traverse Rainier people will ask, where did you start and where did you end. If you climb something you may have to traverse over to the route. The traverse from Cascade Pass to Dome Peak is commonly known as the Ptarmigan Traverse. There are many wonderful climbs along the traverse however you don't have to do any of them to get from one end to the other or simply stated, to complete the Ptarmigan Traverse. As far as speed goes, someone who does 30 miles in one day vs. someone who does 10 miles will generally see a lot more of the surrounding country than the 10 mile person, about 20 miles more. There are plenty of people that don't look at anything but their feet while hiking, regardless of whether they are doing 10 miles in a day or 20. You generally don't hike any faster when you do a 30 mile day, you just end up hiking a longer more consistent day.

quote: Originally posted by Lambone: uh huh, yeah sure...whatever...humansare a critical part of the ecosystem... quote: Originally posted by trask: What a crock of shit. I was wondering if people were going to slam that comment. It may be a crock a shit, but it all depends in how you look at it and it's a good mindset to travel in when you are out in the wild. As far as the "humansare"(?), all animals do shit in the woods, why should a human be that different? If you can travel through an area as light as a large animal would, how does that leave more of an impact? Even small rodents dig up large amounts of turf (not that one should dig holes in the wild). There are some people that could never travel as light as an animal, they'll always leave an impact that they don't know that they are leaving, but there are others whom you and the surrounding enviroment will never tell they were even there. Nobody can really tell whether or not they really traveled as part of an ecosystem, but with the right mindset and practice you can come close to it.

I'm not too worried about whether people think I need a permit or not. For the people that want to subscribe to the theory that you have to have a permit or you shouldn't be there, they can live that way, I have no problem with that. One year I spent over 130 consecutive days backpacking through 6 different NP's, countless wilderness areas and never was asked for a permit nor did I carry one (or want to). To each their own. I just travel as part of the ecosystem, not a visitor.

I figured one of the three groups would be posting to cc.com. It was good to hear that there is a better (and more interesting) option for descending from the summit. Our descent and traverse over to the col took us an hour longer (4 hours from summit to col) so it sounds like we didn't do too bad. We were set on bivying at the ledges 1-2 pitches up so we were pretty much stuck with out descent route (that and we had a single 60m rope). We only belayed the 5.7 pitch and a half pitch before and after. All others were scrambled/simulclimbed. It's surprising how much scrambling there was with so much exposure. Each time you look up you figure your going to have to set a belay, but the scrambling keeps going. I was more surprised than anything about running into the ranger. In the last 10 years of climbing the N Cascades NP I've never run into a ranger. Granted most of the climbing I've done throughout the park have not been in high traffic areas so I've never bothered with permits. I guess I don't have a problem with the permits, it's just not "convenient" for me. Lazy excuse to not spend an extra half day securing a permit.

After an early start Saturday morning from Seattle we arrived at the Thornton Lakes trailhead and were on the trail by 8:30. With a little extra time picking blueberries near Lower Thornton Lake we were at the notch by 1:00 and greeted by your friendly Volunteer National Park Ranger. Ranger: “Beautiful Day isn’t?” Me: “Incredible, it doesn’t get much better.” Ranger: “Do you have a permit?” Me: “No” I’ve finally been caught, other than on Rainier, I can’t remember getting a permit to go anywhere in the Cascades. My usual climb is not anywhere near any other parties other than maybe passing a few people in the early morning hours near major trailheads or campsites. Being that this is the first time I’ve seen a ranger in many years we apparently were entering an area where the hordes of climbers flock to and camp. Our Volunteer Ranger picked up her radio: Ranger: “What is the status of Triumph Backcountry Zone?” Voice: “Two parties are permitted already, it’s full.” Ranger: “I have two climbers without permits at Triumph Col. What do you want me to do?” Voice: “Get their info and let them continue after you talk to them about why we issue permits.” We got a smoothed over version of the permit system and how easy it is to get them ate hour lunch and went on our way. The crossing of the glacier over to the NE Ridge was uneventful for us, but the group we passed on their way to the col was having a lot of trouble with the 20ft. steep section. It took them about 1/2 hour to make the twenty feet, belayed. I think they didn’t have crampons. Overall, we passed three groups heading out Saturday afternoon. One of which highly recommended the SE Ridge descent, if you have double ropes. Apparently it has very airy rappels and is much much quicker. Too bad our planned camp is on the NE Ridge and we don’t have double ropes. We reached the NE ridge and by 4:30 we had made the easy but exposed scramble up the 1-2 pitches to the first major ledge. Voila! A beautiful bivy site just as described by cc’ers last week. An incredible view from Shucksan to the Central Cascades and the best view of the Pickets I have ever seen (other than the view from inside the Pickets). Not a ounce of breeze and a full moon during the night. We got up at 7am and after an overly lazy morning we were scrambling by 8:30. Since most of the climb involves Class 3-4+ scrambling we did a running belay through most of the climb (all but 2-3 pitches). It's pretty exhilerating scrambling along a ridge with so much exposure surrounding you while having little to no pro in. I had also left my rock shoes at home (by accident) so the scrambling was a little more interesting. The 5.7 pitch was pretty fun too with big lugsole boots and a pack on. At least the boots edge well. The climb was very straightforward and our relaxed pace made for a great climb. Nobody else was on the route or could be seen the whole day. We were on the top by noon and descending by 1:00. The descent with the simul-downclimbing mixed in with the rappels was a pain, but we were back to our bivy site by 4:00 and on the glacier by 4:30 and to the car by 8:15. Overall 20 hours of hiking and climbing (including two 1 hour lunches, 17-18 hours without the lunches and repacking our packs). With a light pack and long daylight hours this is definitely doable in one day. Great climb…

I'm not too worried about the weight. The packs are not not your usual overnight pack. Our usual overnight bivy pack is the size and weight of a heavy daypack (Lowe Alpine Contour Mtn 40). With a light rack the weight will be very little. The heaviest items will be the water we'll carry onto the ridge. Thanks for the recomendations on the bivy site 1-2 pitches up. Sounds like the best way to make it a 2 day trip without making day 2 a long day. Thanks Tod

Excellent info! We'll probably do just that, bivy on the ridge about two pitches up the ridge.

Thanks for the beta... At this point my buddy and I are thinking of getting an early start on Saturday, bivying at the base of the ridge and on Sunday summiting and descend and get out at a reasonable hour. From the sounds of it, if we simulclimb fairly quickly we'll have plenty of time to get up and down and out without having to deal with dark. The whole climb from car to car doesn't seem like it's that long so I've been surprised that it's considered 3 days. From the sounds of it, the descent is what takes so long and creates the long day, either that or people take awhile belaying their way up. Any thoughts or better ideas?

For those of you that have done NE Ridge of Triumph in 2 days (or have friends that have), where did you make your camps? Did you bivy at the notch or has anybody bivied on the ridge. Is there a bivy spot at the base of the ridge (or even at the summit for some stupid reason we decide to do that). Also, what's the consensus on the best descent route? It seems like everybody heads back down the NE ridge. Tod

I have had at least one, if not two "tickets" issued for not having a Forest Pass. I have never paid for a pass and nor paid for any tickets that I have recieved. By paying you of course accept the demonstration and voice your approval. Because this is a Federal Demonstration Program there is very little legal recourse that the Forest Service has through the courts. In my last ticket recieved in September of 2001 I sent my ticket in with the following letter. I have not recieved any further notices or fines because of it: September, 2001 Senator Patty Murray 173 Russell Senate Office Building Washington, D.C. 20510 United States of America Dear Senator Patty Murray, I am sending you my Notice of Noncompliance for not participating in the Fee Demonstration issued and run by the National Forest Service. Not only do I question the authority that the National Forest Service has requiring a fee for recreating on public lands, but I also question the fine that has been issued, particularly when this program is a demonstration program. As a demonstration program, the fees and fines are designed to show acceptance; in reality, the only acceptance of the program that the Forest Service is able to obtain is through extortion by fining citizens who choose to voice their opposition. Other than noncompliance, there is no other means for citizens to show their opposition to the program. One may write to their congresswoman or congressman to state their opposition, but with the way the fees and fines are issued, the only way to use Public Lands during the “Demonstration” period you must purchase a pass and thus state your “acceptance”. This is not only immoral, it is extortion and in no way does it legally allow one to visit public land and voice opposition to a Federal Program during its Demonstration Period I urge you to use this Notice of Noncompliance as proof that the National Forest Service is lying to and extorting the citizens of the United Sates and forcing them to participate and show acceptance in a program that is immoral and fiscally irresponsible. Thank you for your time and consideration, Tod

Mountaineer Saved by the Bell Fri Jun 28, 9:25 AM ET BOGOTA, Colombia (Reuters) - A hiker is stranded in South America's Andes mountains when a blizzard begins. He reaches into his backpack for his cell phone -- only to find his prepaid minutes are up. The Colombian mountaineer slowly begins freezing to death, surviving for 24 hours with his only warmth coming from carefully measured dozes of brandy. Then suddenly, at above 12,500 feet, Leonardo Diaz hears a familiar ring. Out of nowhere, a phone company solicitor is calling on his cell phone, asking if he would like to buy more time. "We called him to remind him that his cell phone was out of minutes. He said it was the work of an angel, because he was lost in the (Andes)," said Maria del Pilar Basto, the Bell South operator who called Leonardo. "We thought it was a joke, but he insisted, and it was true." Basto called for help, and she and other operators kept ringing Leonardo to keep him awake and help ward off hypothermia. He was able to keep talking to her until rescue teams arrived seven hours later -- with the frigid temperatures acting as natural recharger for his two cell phone batteries. "I remembered that when I was a boy I put batteries in the freezer," Diaz said in a newspaper interview describing his late May adventure. "So, I took off (the dead) battery and flung it into the snow. After half an hour, it was working again." Diaz was not answering his cell phone on Thursday.

I just got an email from WSDOT in regards to the opening of HWY 20. The official word from Dan Gates the WSDOT Okanogan Maintenance Superintendent: "I can safely say that it will not be open this weekend. We are hoping for the later part of next week, barring any more problems." Looks like another week of hoping and waiting

I've got these pants from Patagonia that are incredibly durable that I've used for rock, aid, hiking, Backcountry skiing. In their original version I think they were made out of Supplex, but when I bought a second pair after 5 years of hard use Patagonia called them their "Baggy" pants. My second pair I've been using for 3-4 years now. They are VERY light, super tough, semi loose fit for great mobility, breathable yet still wind and water resistant enough to be used as a shell in almost all conditions. This is the pant that I climb in (actually do anything in) and with all the slide alder, devils club, aiding, grunting up off-widths they don't seem all that worn. No holes of any concern or size that I can find. For winter use I put some lightweight fleece on underneath and they breath enough to stay dry, yet act like a shell in nasty conditions. Pretty cool pants to say the least and a pant I would buy over and over again. Sorry if I sound like an advertisment. The closest description on Patagonia's website that I can find on the pant that I have is the Talus pant, but from the description they have they have a stretchy characteristic and a lower thigh pocket and the pants that I have do not have either of these. Other than that, the look and the style is similar, khaki, elastic drawstring waist. Tod

Try the road into Depot creek from Canada. This road accesses a "Trailhead" to Spickard and Redoubt in the northern reaches of US North Cascades. Mostly boulders, lot's of brush, high clearance needed, extremely slow going, lot's of fun.... Tod

I've done that section in a somewhat leisurely 2.5 days before, but that was also when there was 16 hours of daylight. To put it into perspective (I'm over analyzing this, but when long distances are involved, it often times is the only REAL perspective): Right now there is only ~12 hours of daylight so that leaves you with 4 hours less time a day than if you were to do it in June with 16 hours of daylight. If your hiking a fast 3mph, then you lose about 12 miles a day that you can hike. If you were to hike a faster 3mph NON-STOP all day for two days, you would complete the 72 miles, but when you put in the breaks that are almost always needed at some point (i.e. 5-15 minute lunch, breakfast?, others), an average time will tend to be 2.5mph which means.... you would need ~15 hours a day over two days to complete a 72 mile leg of the PCT. If you hike 2-3+ hours in the dark both days, you can do it. However, your best bet is to do it when there is mucho daylight. Now if you run, that's another story... Let me know if you end up doing it. Hiking 30-40 miles in a day (mid summer) is done more often than you may think. Good Luck... Tod

It's funny that nobody has mentioned adding gear and clothing underneath your pad... I have found that many times when sleeping on snow, the air temperature is not cold, but the snow still sucks the heat out of you. Take any extra clothing or gear that you are not wearing and put it underneath your pad or feet and you will sleep significantly warmer. This also saves weight since you then don't have to bring extra clothing, warmer sleeping bag, or an extra pad. Items to put underneath oneself: -Shell Pants -Shell Jacket -Any other extra clothing -Rainfly -Rope -Pack (this usually goes underneath my feet) -Stuff sacks -Anything you can find to go underneath you and still be comfortable On one trip up Lib Ridge a few years back, all we had was bivy gear, light sleeping bags, and 3/4 pads. We ended up digging a hole underneath us to get the packs and rope to lay flat. We slept incredibly warm on a cold night... Tod