To_The_Top

No Pain no gain (old) or newer...What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, or music Nirvana "Territorial Pissing"....TTT

Chugach, We attempted the Kautz over a week ago, so the beta I can offer will be a little old by the time you go, but here goes.....Nobody had been up the Finger, but 2 parties were going over (we saw them on the way out). The route was reported to be "in shape" and from what we saw it looked good(been up there a few years ago). We (4) camped at 10,600', but I would recommend camping at 10,300', the sites were better there. We saw a group at Hazard, but I heard they are discouraging camping there-nice Ice Cliff above. The chute was around 50 degree pitches (very short, and not as bad as we heard IMO) The worst part is the approach, allow a long time 6-9 hours, and crossing the "heinious" Nisqually glacier read: not as bad as they tell you. I recommend going to Hazard the night before and checking out the route that didn't seem like the guide books discription, either go down and around or cutting horizotally through the icefall (didn't look too bad). We aborted the climb, long story short..2 newbies that were sick and some kite flying at basecamp. We heard the route above was good though. Both routes are beautiful. TTT

I agree it is a great intro, I have taken first timer friends up there, and it has good views of Challenger and Icy Peak too.TTT

I did it with my girlfriend in the Tetons last year, Nothing better, it made up for me forgetting the fuel bottle on a 3 day hike-climb (at 10,000')-great weather except the T-Storms.....TTT

One time on the DC route we picked up a solo guy that had a fight with his team and asked us to join on the way up. We found his group at the summit and sorted it all out. Dudd probably aprcieated (or should have) that you took him up. I only pick people up on the way down after that, that is when they need help, so I help. That was good you took him up though. TTT

One time while Joel and I were going to climb the Emmons, we stopped in Enumclaw, at Charlie's, I think, the last redneck breakfast spot on the right as you leave town. We saw someone that didn't fit in, we recognized him from somewhere...he saw us looking at him and motioned us over. It was Seattle's mayor Norm Rice, and we had breakfast with him. He was funny as hell, and told us he had a flat tire as he and the group was going to hike up Suntop mtn.

Bridgeport Knucklehead....now that is good if you can find it..TTT

Dan, Try the Emmons or the Kautz route next if you want to do rainier, otherwise the Sitcum glacier on Glacier Peak is easy or do the Colman-Deming route on baker for some expierance. It can an be found in Jim Nelson's books vol I and II. Good job on the marathon route up the DC.TTT

There is the Frosty Inn at Glacier and Gustav's in Levanworth.

......Watch out for da Mountian Police....

A drink mix I use is Endurox R4. Outside magazine had a good article on this in May. I have used this for long endurance training, it really is a recovery drink, but if you are going for a long time you can use it as you are working out. I have noticed a differance while working out. GNC has it. TTT

Snowman, I think the safest route up Baker is the Coleman-Deming route. We were just there last weekend on a one day and the conditions were perfect. The Easton gets a lot of sun, and the route may wander a little. The C-D is in good shape now. Stay out of the basin@6500' (go right, then baring left at the black buttes@7100'). Around 8000'-8500' there are some crevasses opening. Check a guide book on details, but there is a good boot track most of the way. TTT

Rangers do lie or give crappy info, and I always take what they say with a grain of salt. I have gotten more misinformation in the North Cascades than, say Rainier NP. I think the reason they give the bad info is because they think that the person calling is just out for a first time hike, and the fact is that the ranger you are speaking to is not a climber. If the ranger is a climber than they give way better info to climbers then the ones that sit all day or on a power trip. Once when taking a nonclimbing friend up Mt Ruth in the north cascades I ran into two different rangers along the way. The first ranger(pleated uniform) commented that he was glad to see the rope and quizzed me on the ten essentials (ya, right!) and told me about the crevasses that a yawning every where. The second had a ruffeled uniform and when I asked about these "crevasses" he laughed and said that he saw one that was a 100 yards to the left that opened in the last two days, and then said he was going to solo the hill later. When I call or talk to a ranger I ask if they have personally been there (most say no) or if they have climbed around the area lately (mostly not). The Rainier rangers in the last 5 years are way better now that they are climbers themselves (at the sign in at Paradise or White River)for the most part. TTT [This message has been edited by To The Top (edited 06-20-2001).]

We did Dome peak a few years ago, and it is a great backpack/climb. We did it in three days, but can be done in two. Jim Nelson's first book shows that the first 6.5 miles up the Downey creek is easy hiking, and you can make good time. The tough part is at at Bachelor creek turn right (mile 6.5), and hiking (up obvious trail) up to mile point 11, where you enter a open meadow (good camping, we camped there). The preceding area passes through several good campsites, but I wouldn't recommend unless on a three day climb. There is bushwacking (but surveyers tape marking) at around mile 7 to 9.5. Once you pass over the pass you drop into Cub lake, follow the trail to the lake, then turn left (north) and go back up the trail to Itswoot ridge (good camping if on a three day climb). Traverse the glacier to the col. Once there head over the glacier to easy ground and go NW around the steep part and round out to the summit (we did the 5th class straight up) It should round out to the summit. Great climb. The trail out goes pretty fast, once at the pass above the pass out above Cub lake. TTT

Jman, I do ok with acclimatization. I do believe the Ginko Bibola helps, and I just add it to my water. Chad Kellogg did it in '98 in 5 hours 6 minutes and 58 seconds (a new record). That is light years faster than both times I did it in a day. My times were around 14 hours and 18 hours car to car, the second time being earlier in the season (this May), and with several naps. I was on the route the same time Chad was trying for the record (he broke it a week later). The route was longer then when we did it this May--more crevasses to end run, and was less direct, but the snow was firmer. Right now is a good time to do it on the DC, it is more direct now above . One person in our group had trouble with the acclimatization, but the rest of us had trouble with lack of sleep. I wouldn't recommend it to be done this way for everyone. I feel that if you have done the route several times it leaves out any stress about where to go. My fitness level is good, do this stuff almost every weekend, but I personally know several people that can (and do)it faster. TTT

Hi Bronco, I have done Rainier in a day twice out of three tries (the two were at a moments notice). The main consideration IMO is the issue of sleep. The two times (one sucessful) I had a overwhelming need for sleep. Try to get tons of sleep the day before. The one time I did the climb with a lot of sleep it went pretty well. We slept a little at Cougar Rock CG, but if you don't get caught you can sleep at Paradise in the car. The Rangers only issue permits now between 5-8pm for a one day climb, so take this in consideration. Also Ginko Bibola helps with altitude, take some along. When we did it we left Paradise at 1:00am, got to Muir at 3:30, melted water, cached the stove and boiling pot, and left at 4:00am. We got to the summit at 9:00am, caught RMI on the way down before the Cleaver, and were back at Muir at 1:00pm. I almost think it is easier than a 2 day climb (we do this when we climb Baker). You might think about leaving earlier, but we wanted the trip to Muir to be on firm snow for a fast climb. Bill [This message has been edited by To The Top (edited 06-11-2001).]

Hi Mike, I think that given the rescue of climbers that this is a expense that is part of what Mr Jervis on KIRO 710 (1pm) says is part of the budget nationally for all rescues. The conclusion of the show was that there is other rescues that cost just as much as a high altitude rescue. Think of the boating rescues that cost just as much to the Coast Guard or the guy that smoked and started the fire--is he billed for the fire response? I think that if the climber(s) showed as blatent disregard for what is stated as the rules of climbing (your Rangers screen every one very well) then there should be a recovery of costs, but there are circumstances that if they are prepared, and there is a rescue, then this is part of operating costs. Think of the rescues that are incurred in a N Park like the Grand Canyon, where several people a year are rescued from dehidration. My neighbor is one of those in the Chinook and they count this as part of their training (they love it). I think that if the group follows the rules enough, then this is part of what is the cost of doing something in a Ntl Park. I don't think that climbers should incur the costs unless they go out of bounds. I don't know the circumstances of the recent rescue, but being involved in rescues there hasn't been any that I have seen where the climbers are grossly negligent. I couldn't imagine asking for reimburesment for helping out. I have been rescued and I know that for me, you feel embarrased. Bill

I tore the ligements in my left ankle too, and had no surgury for the ligements, but had a cast on for 6 weeks (broken leg) and was climbing 3 months after the accident. Look at non surgical alternatives for healing, as my doctor said they would heal with out a surgical fix in a few months. TTT

.......And a good place to practice is a place you can get out of easy, like an old cornice, say at Granite Mtn, or Paradise parking lot (not this year). I hired a guide to teach me too, and that was way better than looking at a book a hundered times. I go out every year several times to practice setting it all up. This also is good in setting up anchors and experimenting what works in different situations. If you practice, hopefully autopilot will help and you will be familiar with several options in setting up anchors. I know of two times this year where snow bridges on Rainier have collapsed sending one person of a two man team into a crevasse. TTT

I saw a picture that showed a landslide down Mt Si north of haystack.

Many years ago (12-15)in November I was at colchuck lake during a heinous rainstorm-sleet storm we saw a enormous rockfall that took out a route (not sure, Boving route or just off it)that lasted for five plus minutes with huge boulders that broke up and ended up crashing into the lake, splitting down to the lake and the moraine. It was out of the ten commandments movie. I wasn't a climber yet, but having climbed there since then rockfall hasn't happened. Once you go around the lake half way you can turn up the talus field and bivy up above by the big boulders in the trees. Skiing the Colchuck glacier would be way easier than Aasgard, but I haven't been there this year. There is a narrow coloir that starts west of the summit across snow field and down, almost joining the col of the Colchuck glacier.

I was at Muir saturday with a friend, and we saw a party of 3 going to Kautz across the way, and they were going really slow, I bet they were sinking like we were once off the boot track, and there probably was no track there. The conditions aren't firm at all, and with this recent storm, and more snow means more of the same.

I broke my fibula glissading a couple of years ago, just above Pebble creek. Those little chutes people glissade in the summer had a kicked step that caught my left boot (cramponless)and twisted it until it broke. I think the funist glissade is either Interglacier or the one on the left on the Daniel glacier--great run out and high speed. Any long glissade after a tiring climb is good. Mt Adams is long but boring, and Aasgard pass is crazy, but Colchuck col is good.

Knowing ticks exist in the east side and after shaking gear and find three once, I take bike shorts underneath my other shorts every time I go to Icicle, and a hat. No its not deet, but in past research ticks normally go for the head, underarms or the shorts. Chuck is right about Washington having low insidents of Lyme disease (I checked 5 years ago when this happened), but in the east coast it is a big problem in states like Maine.

Sorry, I meant (www.fs.fed.us./gpnf/mshnvm/climbing)