mattp

The Silver Star creek approach will involve some bushwacking even in the Spring, so if you don't like that kind of thing you would not want to go that way. Personally, I like bushes but I would still just about always recommend approaching the N. side of Silver Star via Burgundy col because you start a thousand feet higher and there is two miles less travel involved (it is about a 3,000 foot steep grind, though, and it can be icy up towards the col). In the Spring, the Silver Star Glacier can be a great ski run and a good tour is to climb up via Burgundy, tag the summit, and ski out via Silver Star Creek.

quote: Originally posted by mikeadam: Phil is right, not all Cascade avalanches are heavy and wet. Most of the heavy wet ones are slow and you can get out of the way....Another good thing about a beacon is if you go into a tree well. There have been several persons killed falling into tree wells that might have been saved if they had been locatable. I agree that not all Cascade avalanches are heavy and wet and that people DO survive being buried some times and a beacon might save your life. I don't think this is true for getting stuck in tree wells, though - to survive these incidents you need to ski with a buddy and keep track of them while having them keep track of you. For backcountry skiing, I use a beacon and expect my partners to use one as well. They weigh almost nothing, and the accompanying shovels come in handy for digging test pits and getting out of the wind at lunch time. But after carrying a beacon for twenty years during which time I have NOT ONCE heard a story where the use of a beacon saved a life, I have become less focussed on beacons as a safety device and for winter climbing I often don't carry one at all. I'm not saying the beacons don't work -- the incident reports Phill points to contain some incidents where they did in fact work. But I think a review of the reports will show that they almost always or always involved highly skilled rescuers and probably probes as well. And if you compare the success stories to the number of incidents where someone was buried with a beacon and their friends did not save their life, I bet the success rate is not very impressive -- even when the friends know what they were doing. I'll continue to use one for skiing but I will also try to keep vigilant for the possibility that the use of beacons may in fact encourage my and my partners to do things they wouldn't do without them. So the CSAC site does contain a couple reports of successful recovery of a totally buried power skier. How about climbers - anybody know of a single incident where a climber has been recovered? It is a different situation when you get swept off an ice climb than it is when you get buried in a powder bowl.

Accomplishments: 1) Climbing Colchuck Peak with Alex and DPS. Not only was the climb on the NE Face very enjoyable, but we found ourselves wandering around in whiteout upon reaching the summit. As we started down what appeared to be the way to go, I insisted on stopping and getting out the map and compass and indeed we were headed the wrong way. I have always taken a perverse enjoyment in wandering about in bad weather. 2) Climbing the north face of Big Four Mountain in winter with Daylward. This face had been on my "to do" list for literally 25 years, and it was wonderful to have such an enthusiastic and competent partner, someone I had never met before. I was inclined to go for the "normal" N. Face route, but he was amped for the Spindrift Couloir and it turned out to be fantastic. 3) Climbing a new route on Cerberus Mountain in the Coast Range. I spent a week on a tiny nunatuk in the middle of the Monarch Icefield, sharing stories and some fine smokes with two of the best skiers I have ever met, with the legendary Fred Beckey, and Jim Ruch from Colorado. I had never met Jim before, but he was a solid partner and we had an enjoyable climb. Just how I like it, the climb culminated in a whiteout on the summit and we spent about ten hours wandering around in snow and fog and eventually darkness before we found out way back to camp. It was cool. 4) Climbing Midway at midnight with Matt. I drove over to ropeup with Matt Heller and we went up Midway on Castle Rock in the moonlight. I figured the moon would light the face after 10:00 and we started our climb at 11:00. Didn't have to use the headlamp at all. 5) Completing a new route at Darrington with half of pubclub. Jacob's Ladder is pretty cool, and it goes up a face where as far as I can tell there had seen lots of exploration over the years but nobody had successfully grappled with it. Thanks to all my pubclub friends and some of the DTOWN crew who did all the work for me. Failures: It was a great year. My biggest failure is that I haven't been able to get back into any kind of training routine. [ 11-21-2002, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: mattp ]

I agree that we may sometimes need to take action - even unilatteral action - that engenders disdain or hostility. However, in the war on terrorism and in the war against Iraq I think we are shooting ourselves in the foot and are only going to cause mass suffering in order to further some narrow-minded and undisclosed business objecives. I know I'm not going to convince you of this, however, especially if you believe what I see as the most preposterous lies possible. I just wondered whether you are able to question any of the "program" even in the tiniest way. It sounds like not.

Tony - The best skiing is almost always found when the danger is moderate or above and anybody who does much backcountry skiing is either completely ignorant of the danger or they start to get used to taking chances. If you want to ski powder snow on steep slopes that are not covered with tight trees, that is just the way it is. And I DO feel differently about the situation when we are all wearing beacons and carrying shovels so, while I geneally try to play it somewhat safe, I am sure this affects my choices sometimes.

But Dru-invading helpless third world countries to depose dictators we installed fifteen years ago is how we promote peace and democracy around the world while you guys just sit back and take all the credit. You selfish bastards.

Goat - I asked whether you believe that our goal in the war against terrorism is to make America less threatened by terrorist attack. I also asked whether you believe that waging wars in the region will further this objectives. I completely disagree with you about whether any of this is "the right thing to do" and I am pretty sure that we are not going to agree on what might be a desireable foreign policy. But I sought to careve out one little piece of the whole question and ask you what you think about it. [ 11-20-2002, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: mattp ]

Mtn Goat - Do you actually believe the B.S. about the war on terrorism and that our agenda in said war is to make America more secure? I can understand why some might think we should seek to stay on top of the heap as long as possible (though I think the Rumsfeld doctrine is one of the most horrific foreign policy ideas since Hitler) but I cannot understand how anybody with even a lick of sense would think that pursuing wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and anywhere else in the region is going to reduce terrorism directed at the U.S. As the World Trade Center incident and any number of smaller but still deadly attacks around the world have shown, all it takes is a couple of madmen with a grudge and they can wreak havoc without the support of any foreign government or terrorist organization. Do you really think we are going to "liberate" Iraq and set up some happy democracy there and they are all going to love us?

quote: Originally posted by Peter Puget: a quick review of climbing history repeatedly shows that the "Rock Jocks" easily move into alpine territory and shred the existing scene. Long Live Rock! That's when they move from (maybe) "hard core" to (maybe) "hard man."

We've had the discussion before, but I still have to say that I am in general agreement with the person who (last year) promoted the idea that avalanche beacons should not give you any sense of safety in avalanche terrain. The fact is that the number of avalanche vicims who are dug up alive after being completely buried (so they couldn't have been found by simply walking on top of the debris and looking for them) is very small (I think it was reported to be almost zero). I forget who it was, but they quoted some avalanche expert who suggested that the whole emphasis on recovery is misguided and may in fact distract from what we should be focussing on: avoidance. I like skiing in fresh snow -- and I particularly like skiing in the alpine zone where terrain anchors other than rocky areas which I tend to avoid are non-existent. I like climbing too -- though I tend to pursue winter climbing when the avalanche hazard is much lower than it is when I'm skiing. I'm not fooling myself that I am skilled enough to avoid dangerous situations, but I think the point is a good one: go ahead and wear the beacon and learn how to use it, but don't think that you are safer with one because you are probably not. And if you are prone to think "it is OK to ski this slope because I am wearing a beacon" you are in fact probably in MORE danger when you use the thing.

I'm not dissin on sport climbers, Tim, but I think the term "hardman" generally does not apply to sport climbing. Sport climbers can be "hardcore" but I don't think that wearing sandals on approach to climbs on dry rock with no real chance of falling or getting hurt is being a "hardman."

Rodeo - Don't sweat it. I rarely use sunglasses in the winter because even on those (few) sunny days, the sun is so low in the sky that it doesn't get all that bright and I am often pursuing powder or ice on a northern aspect where the brightness is even less than on the south slopes. If spending a whole day on the south facing Muir Snowfield I might use them, but otherwise sunscreen and sunglasses rarely come out of my pack before March or so. Even in the summer time, I get by with normal sunglasses rather than "glacier glasses" though if I climb Mt. Rainier or travel accross an icefield I will add duct tape side guards or wear a triangular bandage babuska style to keep out the side light. I'm thinking of getting a photogrey lense on a pair of regular glasses, and I bet that these will do just fine -- short of going to Orizaba or something. [ 11-19-2002, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: mattp ]

I used to work for Outward Bound and when running the "hoods in the woods" courses we would routinely "build rapport" by getting ten juvenile delinquents involved in pushing a boulder off the edge of a cliff. It taught them problem solving skills and teamwork. I wish we had the bowling alley scoring system -- we could have taught them something about the discipline necessary to strive toward and accomplish challenging goals as well.

The thing is, Jules, they still try to market the store as if they cater to climbers and they suck us in but we are frustrated when we go there and find out that they don't have the climbing gear we want. They run out of ice screws during ice climbing season just about every year, Spanker couldn't get a snow picket in April, and their selection of climbing ropes is not as good as the mini-store, Pro Mountain Sports when the latter has only a dozen ropes in the whole store! REI catalogs suggest that they cater to climbers and they keep the climbing gear next to the front door to suggest to their customers that they are shopping where climbers shop, but a climber is almost always going to find a poor selection of climbing equipment sold by people who don't know how to use the stuff. You are right, REI is a good store and it serves a market that deserves to be served. And I buy plenty of stuff there, but I yearn in a nostalgic way for the old days when it was a climbing supplier.

And in the volcano vein, take a look at Broken Top and the South Sister, both easily approached from Gaper Timmy's office for a pleasant weekend outing.

A couple of stray thoughts, provoked by the above posts: Don't give up hope on Mt. Baker. In some winters, you can drive pretty far up that Glacier Creek road toward the west side, so here's hoping we have the el nino winter. The road to the south side (snowmobile access point) is plowed every year if you don't mind sharing your climb with those guys. Two years ago the Cascade River road was plowed to Eldorado Creek in February, and if we have the predicted el nino year, there may be lots of trailheads that remain open throughout the season or at least later than normal. If not, Alex is right about the N. Face of Shuksan and, if you play your cards right, you needn't worry about having to do the approach on skis. This is because you really want to do the climb after it has rained up to the summit or nearly so, and then gotten cold without any new snowfall. Under these conditions, you can make the approach without skis. If you do go in there on skis, the White Salmon is a pretty good ski route both up and down. Ditto on Whitehorse. It can be one of the best "moderate" day trips from Seattle.

quote: Originally posted by Beck: Don't forget a stove board... Beck, you old school snowgoose! The stove board is the number one essential but kids these days are carrying the MSR Trillium or some such thing because a piece of plywood or panelling is too low tech. But this item that you get for free and weighs next to nothing is better than the high tech counterpart. Next you'll be telling them to ditch their msr and carry a svea.

Gib ledges is the "standard" winter route. Run a search and you'll find lots of discussion, beta, a trip report or two, etc.

quote: Originally posted by Rick Sharpless: I looked at the Volvo and the Subaru and bought a VW Passat Wagon I test drove a Passat sedan, and the thing was damn comfortable and seemed to handle pretty well, too. I'm still eying the Subarus and the Volvos, but I'm thinking the Passat may be the way to go. It is such a frumpy looking car that I am sure many of my climber buddies won't want to ride in it because of the image it would present, but then I'll be able to sit back and enjoy the ride while they hit rocks with their car.

That sounds like all the early season trips to Paradise that I remember, except one October outing when we actually did find powder snow and clear skies on the Muir Snowfield after perservering through the white-out below 8,500 feet.

My friend Chris pushed a flake off a climb at Darrington two months ago, and the thing was over 12 feet high. It skipped down to the next belay ledge, shot out into space, and then exploded on impacting the apron 250 feet below. The shrapnel then flew up and came back down staccato style, sounding like machine gun fire. The whole basin below the west face of Exfoliation Dome filled with dust and smelled like smoke. But the thing only took out a couple of relatively small maple trees, so no strike. Due to the overall coolness, maybe a spare?

If I am climbing terrain where I will be using them frequently, I clip them about a quarter or third of the way from the top, kind of like one of the methods Forrest describes, and I often hang them from my pack strap rather than my harness because it is a little easier to clip/unclip and when I dump my pack they do not remain in my way. While clipping a hole or two below the top is better than letting them dangle all the way down, they still get in the way. Forrest's bandolier method and Philfort's sheath sound intriguing.

Lisa - The problem with the Eastside is that attendance has generally been poor over there. About six weeks ago we had an east side night that was well attended, and I can recall a couple of successful pubclub nights down in Issaquah, but even on these occasions the Eastside enthusiasm has been less than steller. The two or three times I've been to Issaquah, Seattle residents outnumber east siders, and six weeks ago everybody but about three had gone home by 10:30, and two of them were from Seattle. Its nothing personal, but you need to get your eastside brethren and sistren revved up in advance and then maybe you'd find more interest from folks this side of the lake. I'd recommend calling it in advance and then running some kind of promotion. Free beer, a local legend, or a safety break special might help.

Some of the hard-cores who frequent this site have indicated that tape is aid, and only whiners with poor technique use it. To some degree, I agree with that idea because I find that if I am totally in control, I generally don't rip my hands to pieces. Tape is aid but then again, one could make the same argument about c-4 rubber yet they never do.

Ah yes, the thank-god-pointy-projection!!!! But I thought maybe Forrest was talking about standing on that "pointy projection" in the form of the little flake sticking out of the right-hand crack on the first crux, where you get a good rest and can re-plug before continuing on.