mattp

Hey Rudy: why all the hate? You are as much of a jokster as anybody else around here and it just took me by surprise that you coudn't tolerate TomTom's quip. I agree, you rarely put down other posters for the style in which they do a climb -- unless maybe said climb involves skiing or you think someobody has a stick up their a$$ about something -- and I've commented on that fact more than once. Mike's accomplishment speaks for itself and my guess is he doesn't need you and Harry to call somebody an "a&&hole" if they have the audacity to be irrevrant on cc.com. And, in actual fact, I bet TomTom is duly impressed.

I have heard nothing about any keg. It seems to me there may have been a gas grill there in addition to a charcoal rig, but I don't remember for sure.

If you head up from Wiki Shelter, you don't have to follow the road. At Morrison Creek Campground, which if I remember correctly is not far beyond the shelter, simply head into the woods and keep on trekking toward the mountain. You will save a couple of miles this way and there isn't any bad bushwacking or anything.

I'm not sure that is what CJF was implying, Archie. It certainly wasn't what I tried to say three pages earler. You are right: some people like to go to meetings, some like to work on trails or whatever, and others like to spray on the Internet and send e-mails. However, different means of participation are going to generate different results, and if we are truly worried about access and the good name of climbers, we should probably get more directly involved than simply sending angry e-mails once in a while or roasting somebody on the Internet. I am not saying anybody involved in this conversation has not contributed something legitimate and I have no idea to what extent most of us have actually gotten more directly involved in past issues. Still, the point is valid.

I have not been up Castle but I'm pretty sure it is pretty straight-forward from that same saddle. The topo map makes it appears as if it might be easier to travel beneath the north face and circle around the east side, though.

I don't think it is any easier to go from the Pinnacle Plummer saddle, but if you go that way there will be more travel on steep sun-warmed slopes on the descent, when the danger of sun-warmed slopes is greatest. Also, the Pinnacle - Castle saddle approach is a little shorter.

If I can get my work done, I'll see you at the P&R.

2006 Silver Sprayer Award Wotan and the Ballard Alpine Club has announced this year’s winner of the highly prestigious Silver Sprayer - I mean Silver Tongue - Award: Sky Sjue. This year’s award is made in recognition not only of Mr. Sjue’s impressive feats on skis, but his wonderfully written from-the-heart trip reports. Wotan offers sincere appreciation and expressed the hope that Mr. Sjue will continue to dazzle us for years to come. Wotan is a little shy, and he may not be available to make the presentation himself, but the award ceremony will take place at this weekend’s ski fiesta in Mazama. Sky - wear your tux! Channel KCCOM will be filming the award ceremony and we're looking forward to your humble testimonial following a brief presentation on "the life of Sky."

Democrats announce substantive platform; House victory assured.

I don't know what kind of boots you guys have or what kind of climbers you are, but I would think you could easily climb the S. Arete in boots that were suitable for kicking a few steps in the snow at the top. The climb has two or three moves that might be 5.7 down low, then about ten feet of chimney climbing which might be 5.6, and the rest is 4th class. Take an ice axe and wear your knickers and call it alpine climbing.

It is a pretty nice ski run.

David jput the following in the events foruum thread.

I'm not sure climbing needs to be addressed at all. But what we are getting there is this: 1. 11 or twelve miles of new paved road. 2. gravel road leading to some great climbing opportunities gated. 3. new commercially operated campground 4. new mountain bike trail or trails 5. new hiking trail 6. designated closures for horse riders to have better opportunity to ride without mtn bikers passing by 7. kayak put-ins to be preserved Some of this is definitely NOT what I'd want to see, but it some of it is OK. By being more involved, I'm not sure we would have gotten a plan any more or less favorable for climbing. But we were not there, and missed an opportunity to be part of the process and strengthen our relationship with the Forest Service and the other groups who DID participate in the process. We marginalize ourselves. Right now, the National Forest Service is re-doing the recreation management plan for Okanagon, Wenatchee, and Colvillle National Forests. I've talked with a lot of climbers who are interested in climbing in those areas, and most of them see no benefit in participating in that proceess. I feel they(we) may be missing an opportunity.

Climbers are marginalized for a number of reasons. You may be right that, to a degree, being MORE visible might sometimes make us more of a planned for an accepted part of the management of a given park. On the whole, though, I think it is our failure to participate in public meetings, letter writing, etc., and our generally cagy attitude toward dealing with “the man” that causes us to be marginalized. Look at the recent planning process for the Middle Fork valley near North Bend. Mountain Bikers, horseriders, hikers, kayak groups, campground developers etc. all turned out and got a piece of the pie. Climbers were not involved and the new development/management plan does not address climbing.

Certainly, many tourists are going to be charmed to see you perform your great feats of strength, but others will not. All other things being equal, why not climb in a location where you can do your thing without risking a conflict? Of course lots of people line up to watch climbers on El Cap, and climbers in the Needles used to cause traffic jams - just as much as a buffalo might. I'm not debating that point.

I may be skewered for saying this, but in my opinion the Park Service generally does a pretty good job with what they have. Yes, they develop huge and high impact facilities for masses of people who are not fit or energetic enough to walk more than a hundred yards from their Winnebago. Yes, Arches would be a nicer place if it did not have a paved loop road and signs telling you where you can and cannot walk, but it is still pretty cool. And, in my opinion, it is not a good idea for climbers to climb on Delicate Arch or any other feature that is going to be right in front of all those visitors for whom the 1/4 mile stroll along a wheelchair accessible nature trail is as close to nature as they are going to get. Even if you don’t use chalk and are not damaging the rock, you are not what those folks want to see and you can easily avoid any conflict by simply climbing somewhere else. If you want your own private arches and towers in a wilderness setting, head to Canyonlands, across the street. If you want to drive up to some tower in your 4x4 and have a party at the base of your climb, there is plenty of BLM land for that, too. I'm not saying I like everything the Park Service does, but they generally have done a lot to preserve the scenic values, wilderness, and climbing opportunities in many of our major parks while providing drive-up experiences for many many people who I am glad are given the opportunity to see some mountains and canyons up close and maybe they will vote for more preservation of public lands. It is unfortunate to see Dean Potter’s stunt presented as a cool accomplishment in that it may encourage other climbers to think “hey: why can’t I do something like that.” This could lead to an erosion of our relationship with Park managers, but on the other hand the article posted above does say a lot about minimum impact and the Rangers can say: hey-we cannot allow this and here’s why.

The North Ridge of Pinnacle Peak is an outstanding climb when it is clad with snow. It is an easy day trip from Narada and probably has substantial cornices on it and sufficient mixed, technical terrain for signficant adventure right now. At this time of year, the standard Pinnacle Peak (south side) route involves a traverse on a south-facing slope from the Pinnacle - Castle saddle, and a short climb up a chute that can raise avalanche concerns in the sun. For either route, you climb the hill above Narada Falls (there is usually a boot path in the woods to the left of the avalanche slope) and then follow the road for a mile or two until you are below the peak; then head up the blunt ridge below Pinnacle Peak and enter the Pinnacle - Castle Peak bowl.

There has been lots of literature recommending the slow ascent at 1000' or even 500' per day as a way to avoid alititude illness. I believe the most successful (in terms of getting clients to the top) guide service on Mount McKinley used to approximate something like that (maybe still does - I don't know) but, yes, very few people are going to have nine days to get from Pardise to the summit of Mount Rainier. However, I think more time is better and I have heard Mike Gautier say that parties who plan for an extra night at the high camp - that is "resting" for a full 24-hours-plus before they start the summit climb - have a greater rate of success than those who do not. For sure, though, you want to start early on the first day if you are heading up for the two day weekend. This will allow maximum time to rehydrate and rest before starting the summit climb. I know in my case the most enjoyable climbs of Mount Rainier all were on a three or four day itinerary (even five) rather than a two day. There are some who advocate a one-day push to get up and down Mount Rainier quickly and feel this minimzes exposure to altitude in the first place, thereby reducing symptoms. I guess I'm just not that much of a marathon runner. Also, I think the mountain is pretty cool and I don't mind spending time on its flanks. You can easily make intermediate camps if you are so inclined, or simply hike up to a standard high camp and spend a day poking around.

Shoeller and hard shells are not mutually exclusive. For lots of winter climbs, I'll wear the Shoeller pants and pull on some "hard shell" over it when it really turns crappy, cold, or when I'm going to be sitting in the snow a lot. For a Rainer climb, you might want to have both if the weather was predicted unstable.

For more discussion, go to the Freshiez forum here.

Minx the trashtalking moderator: how about Woodland Park after work? You and Archenemy can MC.

Plark: One very simple idea I don't think you will find in your crevasse rescue book or be told in a workshop is this: If you are travelling in a party of two, the fancy self-rescue system you practiced over and over again will very likely not work. If you are travelling in a party of five or more and soembody falls in, as long as they didn't fall in unroped and end up wedged between ice walls you are almost certainly going to have sufficient strength/rope/etc. to pull them out no matter how little you have practiced any technical rescue skills. There is plenty to learn, but no matter how much you learn, these general rules will probably apply.

Tonight, after work.