mattp

Plenty of people have climbed Mt. Rainer with less preparation than that. If you want somebody to tell you "you will be so adequately prepared that you will be safe," you probably won't get that from anybody other than a promoter of your particular class. But, if the class is good, you'll probably be relatively technically prepared for Mt. Rainier as compared to others on the mountain when you go.

Will and Jay: I find your "c'mon, let business make money" argument somewhat persuasive, but only "somewhat." There’s no doubt, an oil company shareholder deserves to make money just as much as the next guy, and in fact they are supplying an essential commodity that is probably more essential than the next guy, but the fact is Oil has been more heavily subsidized than probably any other industry out there. And they’ve taken advantage of their position more than just about any single industry there is. Remember how we used to have mass transit in the Puget Sound region (hint: it was called the interurban)? Oil companies and car companies took it apart so it wouldn’t compete with them. Remember how the anti-trust laws came into effect (hint search “standard oil” on google)? This complaint about “price fixing” is not a new one. Remember how just about all of our "justifications" for going to war in Iraq are crumbling - except for the "bottom line" about how we want "democracy" in the Middle East? What do you think the whole thing is about if it is not about OIL? Are we fighting for democracy in Africa or South America? Have we invaded Cuba or Uganda, where "dictators" have thumbed their nose at the U.S.? This industry is probably driving American foreign policy more than any single business interest ever has, and they are not paying the bill. Yes, Shell may be acting just like a corporation just as WallMart is, but the fact is, these guys suck. And their business model is a threat to national security, economic stability, and global health. The sooner we figure out how to be less reliant upon these folks, and get them OUT of the White House, the better. This isn't "populist rhetoric," It is common sense.

Really old interesting oddities?

I'm not surprised. I wasnt overly impressed with the little bit I just heard on this one, either. But THE MAN is awesome! He's released a ton of good stuff and I've seen him put on a great show. With Crazy Horse he totally rocked the Gorge about ten years ago.

Zuma was a long time ago. And, I will add, if you think that is hard rocking I wonder what you do when faced with speed metal?

I think he can still rock when he wants to but I have not seen him live for about ten years. Though he DID travel with Pearl Jam, I bet most people who are buying Rage against the Machine cd's are not looking to Neil Young for real rock and I actually like his Harvest Moon CD as much as I like the more rocking Crazy Horse stuff.

Post deleted by mattp

If the water was waist deep or higher, I'd say Mr. "odd" Leader was right to take his pants off -- and all those sensitive types should simply have averted their eyes.

I find it pretty funny to see Dru and Harry trying to argue that there is no even vaguely identifiable regular or periodic user group on cc.com. They spend literally several hours a week on the site and they sure seem to notice when someone new posts to the board based on their frequent comments directed toward the "newbie." Both have also been known to make broad general comments about unspecific groups of people - newbies, snowshoers, peak-baggers, rednecks, whoever. Even mountaineers (were not some of the "mounty" pictures actually boealps or something?).

So the quesion remains: are people who waste lots of time on cc.com more prone to having climbing accidents than the mountaineers?

tomtom - we have a secret handshake and everything.

Whether Harry wants to debate the meaning of a "club" or not, there is a definite affiliation thing going at cc.com. Half of my climbing partners stay away from this site, or perhaps lurk but don't post. They are not cc.com'ers. The other half of my partners appear here on a regular basis. They are. Harry is one of the club's elder statesmen.

That was exactly the point, Archy. Ten years ago, we didn't have cc.com and few of us chatted on a daily basis the way many of us do now.

I think you'd have to wait and classify CBS until after he gets involved in an accident. If he is on The Tooth with an intermediate climbing party of Mountaineers, it would be a mounty accident. If he were there with his buddy Peter Puget, it'd be a cc.com misadventure. It does seem like we are having lots of accidents but it may be, as you hint, that we simply talk about them more on cc.com than we might have, say, ten years ago.

I may be able to cut out of work a little early if somebody wants to go to North Bend. I generally prefer Exit 32 over 38.

From the end of that logging road AJ mentions, you can make a slightly dropping traverse into the basin and then, on return, follow your track to minimize climbing back up. You have to cross a couple of tricky avalanche chutes if you go this way, though. Every spring, the avalanche debris in that basin is some of the most impressive I've seen anywhere in Washington but it does seem to go in massive isolated events rather than firing at every skier who ventures in there. The generally shaded slopes at the intermediate elevation on that approach and lower down on the White Salmon itself often take a long time to set up when the snow goes isothermal in the Spring, so it is bottomless muck for at least a couple weeks at this time of year starting, I would guess, some time soon, but the White Salmon is a very scenic and not too hard ski route.

Damn! I think I see a ski run! Its been avvy checked and everything.

Retired General Wilkerson OpEd

Outstanding photos!

I'm just providing simple information If you were looking for a sunny evening at the Ballroom, that was probably LAST night.

Yes, in past years some folks have brought their kids. Some have brought their parents, too. This year, I think our special guest the sendbot will be putting on a bouldering clinic as there is a small boulder right next to the shelter. In addition to the slide shows, if it is nice enough I'm not worried about wetness I may bring a small collection of large printed photos taken by the late Larry Kemp. He was an outstanding photographer, and his rock climbing pictures have appeared on climbing guide covers and in various magazines.

TODAY...SUNNY THEN BECOMING PARTLY CLOUDY LATE. HIGHS IN THE UPPER 60S TO MID 70S. NORTHEAST WIND AROUND 10 MPH. TONIGHT...PARTLY CLOUDY IN THE EVENING THEN BECOMING MOSTLY CLOUDY. LOWS IN THE 40S. LIGHT WIND BECOMING SOUTH 10 TO 15 MPH

TUESDAY...MOSTLY CLOUDY IN THE MORNING THEN BECOMING PARTLY CLOUDY. HIGHS IN THE UPPER 50S TO MID 60S. SOUTH WIND 10 TO 15 MPH. TUESDAY NIGHT...PARTLY CLOUDY IN THE EVENING THEN BECOMING MOSTLY CLOUDY. LOWS 40 TO 45. SOUTH WIND TO 10 MPH.

Join us for a barbeque and slides to celebrate the coming season,Thursday, May 4, at 6:00 pm. We'll be at Woodland Park picnic shelter number 6: Bring something for the grill, or maybe a side dish, slack line or a frisbe. When it is dark enough, we'll show some slides, starting off with John Scurlock showing some of his outstanding North Cascade aerials, and David Whitelaw showing crags illustrated in his recently published "Weekend Rock." If you have something to show, send me a private message. Directions appear on the front page, but here goes again: the picnic shelter is next to the lawn bowling area and horseshoe pits. Head north on Aurora Avenue about a half mile north of N. 50th Street and turn right into a park entrance that is not all that well marked. Just inside the park, steer left and you'll see the picnic shelter on your right. Alternatively, you can head up internal park roads from near the swim stadium/golf course. We'll provide charcoal and paper plates and stuff like that. There will be both digital and analog projectors available.

Whoa. Someplace new?