pope

I am embarassed to call myself a climber when the public associates a once noble tradition with this brand of horseshit.

An asshole is an asshole, no matter how small, no matter how large. Mister E, I'm personally embarassed for you. You call as your friend a guy who leaves a trail of trash in the mountains. These bolts are evidence of a cowardly ascent, nothing more, nothing less. Instead of advising him to minimize his impact and just top-rope his 40-ft project, you attempt to justify his actions by pointing out another, larger intrusion on the mountain landscape. "Shouldn't we worry about something else? Don't my buddy's transgressions pale in comparison to these chairlifts?" To your questions I would answer with a set of new questions: "Shouldn't we be concerned about both transgressions? Shouldn't a mountain climber hold himself to a higher ethical standard than a developer/profiteer?" A bigger evil on the right does not excuse a smaller evil on the left. Please, gentlemen, put on your thinking caps before you enter these discussions.

That assumption could also be in error. It could be that Pope can't pull down technical stuff.....OR IT COULD BE THAT HE DOESN'T FEEL THE NEED TO ANSWER TO THOSE WHO INCORRECTLY ASSUME THIS. IT COULD BE THAT POPE DOESN'T FEEL THE NEED TO GO SHOW-BOATIN' WITH HIS CLIMBING RESUME EVERY TIME SOME NOVICE CLIMBER QUESTIONS HIS ABILITIES. It is just possible that Pope has accomplished things in the mountains that Erik has never and will never climb. But I completely agree, Chuck, that no matter at what level one climbs, he should do it in good style and not leave a mess. Success in Patagonia, or having once belayed somebody who dated the ex-girlfriend of a guy who pink-pointed 5.13a....these factors do not imply the right to bolt whatever you want. Establishing bolted top-rope climbs in the mountains is weak. The better climber you are, the more obvious this should be.

I forgot to mention the condos and heated swimming pools and SUVs and diesel trucks! Bring your righteous religion and enlighten us as to why all of the above are OK, but bolts are the spawn on Satan. I'm curious, I really am. And remember, I am young and impressionable. Perhaps your sagacity can save me from these evil hordes. As for your pig, I'd shake the hand of the man who chopped it. Talk about visual impact! It was disturbing the activities of the other climbers! Lame asses. Another limp argument. Are you putting yourself in the same class as an area skiier or a snow machine user? Do you think its appropriate for a mountaineer to behave this way?

Nobody wants to hear it, and it is stupid to argue about it, I agree. But it is even more ridiculous that climbers are bolting a top-rope cliff in the mountains in the first place. There's absolutely no need for it and it reflects poorly on us. I saw the photos. What are we talking about, 40 feet of rock? And we need to bolt this because.....? Say what you will, but this activity deserves all of the ridicule we can heap on it.

It's hard to imagine what Dwayner must have done to be banned from this site when this kind of threatening, insulting language is tolerated. Glasgow, you win. I will shut up. I'm no longer interested in this "discusssion". Instead of addressing sport climbing/bolting in the mountains, you find it necessary to question my climbing abilities, and then insult and threaten me. Insults and threats don't constitute a discussion. As far as my climbing ability, do your homework. You obviously don't know who you're talking to.

These facts are relevant because......? Unless you're suggesting that a climber who is successful in Patagonia has license to make a messy bolt trail in the Cascades, I don't understand why you're reporting these facts. Also, if by "climbs 5.13" you mean that he/she regularly on-sights gear routes at this grade, I am very impressed. But I doubt that's what you mean. Only a small number of people in the world have done that even once and I doubt you know them. You're spreading lies. I didn't bolt a crack in Leavenworth. You obviously haven't done the route. I know what the world has been up to since 1985. I started climbing in 1984, probably about the time you were still dropping pencils in order to get a glimpse up your elementary school teacher's skirt. My contribution to climbing: I've climbed for nearly 20 years without making a mess, I've taught others to climb, and I've done whatever I can to discourage the spread of bolt rash.

Not recently. It's dangerous. I have children. But I'll bet I know how....and I'll bet you know that. And what has this to do with bringing sport climbing to the mountains? Next time, please ask a relevant question.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Am I correct to assume that every square inch of Exit 38 has been bolted, and this is why it is necessary to export the dubious practice of sport climbing to the mountains? Or is it that a bunch of bolt clippers decided they wanted to play at mountain climbing, and since they were smart enough to figure out how to get crampons on their boots ....and that's about it......they decided to "MAKE THE MOUNTAINS SAFE FOR SPORT CLIMBERS"? Shame, shame, shame. Shame on you.

I think Pressure Drop is a fine pitch at 5.10b, and by that I mean it would be rated no harder than 10b just about any place I've climbed. Anybody climbed Alley-Oop Chimney? How about the original 1st pitch of Yak Crack?

Isn't this just tremendous? Sport climbing in the mountains. Jeeeesh. And on top of that, we are advised to remember that these guys are doing us a favor, beating back the wilderness with a mighty hammer and marking the path with a shiny bolt trail so that nobody gets lost. So, don't mess with their abandoned trash....I mean, gear. PATHETIC. Really.

Just give your kids the time they deserve and if you're lucky enough to get out, do everything you can to make it home in one piece. Once the little bundle arrives, you'll fully understand my attitude. You can work out with your kid (even carrying the kid around in a car seat is not exactly light duty). I enjoyed packing my daughter up the local training hill until she was old enough to hike it by herself. You can play a great game with a soccer ball: just have your child try to grab the ball while you attempt to keep it away using only your feet. Every now and then you let your child grab it, and then reward your child by lifting him/her over your head (military press), or let him jump on your back and crawl around the back yard like a horse. You'll get your work out. After a tough day on the rock, I sometimes have my daughter walk on my back (she's only about 40 pounds) to relieve muscle tension. Use a little imagination and you can find opportunities for both fun and fitness. I find that while I still enjoy climbing, now that I have children I'm no longer obsessed with it the way I used to be, and I have no desire to get in over my head (which used to be part of the goal).

Can't Believe It's A Girdle? Haven't climbed it but I hear it's pretty wild. One that I appreciated is Rock Candy (as an example of an appropriately bolted face climb).

The Rolling Stone article .

I think that Husky defense is the big story. I know the cougs can move the ball against some great teams, but tonight they had a whole mess of 3-and-outs and sloppy ball handling. Top-ten my ass.

Jens - I believe most of the assertions you make here are incorrect. On average I find Jtree ratings more difficult than Index for example go try Baby Apes (Bachar route) or Sole Fusion (Bachar route), Headstone Rock Arete or even Coarse and Buggy. I could go on and on. Try the Gunks - many hard routes with ratings comparable to Index. Open Cockpit, Supercrack even on TR these are hard as hell. I wouldn't believe everything you read in climbing magazines. Yakima ratings and Index ratings seem pretty much in synch to me. PP Damn another weekend at work for me! Baby Apes used to be called 12a, but I think it's been upgraded. Coarse and Buggy seemed right on for the grade. In general, I kind of agree that Index grades are no harder than Yosemite and Joshua Tree grades. Index has got superb friction (can't think of a slick route), but in Yosemite, slick rock and warm weather can make moderate climbs seem really hard. One candidate for the biggest sandbag might be Alley-Oop Chimney in Peshastin. Hang Dog at Castle Rock is a wicked lead. The Nose on Jello Tower is probably 5.11 (according to Peter Croft when I saw him down solo it in 1985). Finishing the Pedestal pitch on Outer Space is tough for 5.6, and the exit on the 1st pitch of Canary is challenging for 5.8.

Every WSU fan I know has a chip on his shoulders. They hate the Huskies more than they love their Cougs. This should shut them up. It will be cool to see if they are even in the top 20.

It is so sad that you can't recognize the N. Face of Shuksan. I thought you were a climber... I just pretend. I'm sorry. I'm not usually this big of an asshole, but this is just rich! Aren't you the one who advised me to "get some perspective"? "Nice shot of Baker." Jeeesh. OK, time to laugh at myself while I'm at it. On my first attempt to climb Mt. Stuart, we started hiking at 2 a.m. (kind of drunk) and missed the trail for Ingal's Lake. Instead, we continued up Ezmerelda Basin (but didn't know it). OK, this is where it gets rich. Just as it got light, we packed up and noticed a large peak sticking out of the fog. We guessed where the West Ridge climb must go and planned our line of approach. Just then, the fog lifted even more, and behind us, 180 degrees opposite of "Mt. Stuart", we saw the real Mt. Stuart. And it was huge, and maybe three valleys away. God we felt stupid. I remember thinking I wasn't cut out for Mt. Stuart.

Which can be difficult while you're trying to balance in a precarious stance. This kind of adventure isn't so popular with many of today's climbers, so they start at the top of the cliff and slide down a rope, stopping ever so often to drill the holes and set the bolts. They then go to the bottom of the cliff and begin climbing up. The shiny bolt hangers serve two purposes. Firstly, they mark the trail so that nonbody gets lost. Secondly, today's climber finds them to be kind of attractive, and so he is enticed into leaving the relative safety of having a bolt by his shoulders and into the bold frontier of climbing until that same bolt is by his knees. At that point, he gets to clip the next bolt at helmet level and he may decide to lean back on the rope for a little rest while he admires that shiny little beauty. I hope this has helped. phaquin precious! fuggin' stoopud... A bolt by my foot and my knee and my shoulder, a goofy big pad that I tote to the boulders. Lycra that matches my colorful slings, these are a few of my sport climbin' things!

Hideous! (That's something you used to say a bunch when we was getting drunk down in Joshua Tree). I wanted to ask you....to the best of your knowledge, is Gutbuster unrepeated? Also, I noticed that Doin' the Dishes is graded 12b in the new guide. Does that sound right to you?