pope

It's hard to imagine what Dwayner must have done to be banned from this site when this kind of threatening, insulting language is tolerated. Glasgow, you win. I will shut up. I'm no longer interested in this "discusssion". Instead of addressing sport climbing/bolting in the mountains, you find it necessary to question my climbing abilities, and then insult and threaten me. Insults and threats don't constitute a discussion. As far as my climbing ability, do your homework. You obviously don't know who you're talking to.

These facts are relevant because......? Unless you're suggesting that a climber who is successful in Patagonia has license to make a messy bolt trail in the Cascades, I don't understand why you're reporting these facts. Also, if by "climbs 5.13" you mean that he/she regularly on-sights gear routes at this grade, I am very impressed. But I doubt that's what you mean. Only a small number of people in the world have done that even once and I doubt you know them. You're spreading lies. I didn't bolt a crack in Leavenworth. You obviously haven't done the route. I know what the world has been up to since 1985. I started climbing in 1984, probably about the time you were still dropping pencils in order to get a glimpse up your elementary school teacher's skirt. My contribution to climbing: I've climbed for nearly 20 years without making a mess, I've taught others to climb, and I've done whatever I can to discourage the spread of bolt rash.

Not recently. It's dangerous. I have children. But I'll bet I know how....and I'll bet you know that. And what has this to do with bringing sport climbing to the mountains? Next time, please ask a relevant question.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Am I correct to assume that every square inch of Exit 38 has been bolted, and this is why it is necessary to export the dubious practice of sport climbing to the mountains? Or is it that a bunch of bolt clippers decided they wanted to play at mountain climbing, and since they were smart enough to figure out how to get crampons on their boots ....and that's about it......they decided to "MAKE THE MOUNTAINS SAFE FOR SPORT CLIMBERS"? Shame, shame, shame. Shame on you.

I think Pressure Drop is a fine pitch at 5.10b, and by that I mean it would be rated no harder than 10b just about any place I've climbed. Anybody climbed Alley-Oop Chimney? How about the original 1st pitch of Yak Crack?

Isn't this just tremendous? Sport climbing in the mountains. Jeeeesh. And on top of that, we are advised to remember that these guys are doing us a favor, beating back the wilderness with a mighty hammer and marking the path with a shiny bolt trail so that nobody gets lost. So, don't mess with their abandoned trash....I mean, gear. PATHETIC. Really.

Just give your kids the time they deserve and if you're lucky enough to get out, do everything you can to make it home in one piece. Once the little bundle arrives, you'll fully understand my attitude. You can work out with your kid (even carrying the kid around in a car seat is not exactly light duty). I enjoyed packing my daughter up the local training hill until she was old enough to hike it by herself. You can play a great game with a soccer ball: just have your child try to grab the ball while you attempt to keep it away using only your feet. Every now and then you let your child grab it, and then reward your child by lifting him/her over your head (military press), or let him jump on your back and crawl around the back yard like a horse. You'll get your work out. After a tough day on the rock, I sometimes have my daughter walk on my back (she's only about 40 pounds) to relieve muscle tension. Use a little imagination and you can find opportunities for both fun and fitness. I find that while I still enjoy climbing, now that I have children I'm no longer obsessed with it the way I used to be, and I have no desire to get in over my head (which used to be part of the goal).

Can't Believe It's A Girdle? Haven't climbed it but I hear it's pretty wild. One that I appreciated is Rock Candy (as an example of an appropriately bolted face climb).

The Rolling Stone article .

I think that Husky defense is the big story. I know the cougs can move the ball against some great teams, but tonight they had a whole mess of 3-and-outs and sloppy ball handling. Top-ten my ass.

Jens - I believe most of the assertions you make here are incorrect. On average I find Jtree ratings more difficult than Index for example go try Baby Apes (Bachar route) or Sole Fusion (Bachar route), Headstone Rock Arete or even Coarse and Buggy. I could go on and on. Try the Gunks - many hard routes with ratings comparable to Index. Open Cockpit, Supercrack even on TR these are hard as hell. I wouldn't believe everything you read in climbing magazines. Yakima ratings and Index ratings seem pretty much in synch to me. PP Damn another weekend at work for me! Baby Apes used to be called 12a, but I think it's been upgraded. Coarse and Buggy seemed right on for the grade. In general, I kind of agree that Index grades are no harder than Yosemite and Joshua Tree grades. Index has got superb friction (can't think of a slick route), but in Yosemite, slick rock and warm weather can make moderate climbs seem really hard. One candidate for the biggest sandbag might be Alley-Oop Chimney in Peshastin. Hang Dog at Castle Rock is a wicked lead. The Nose on Jello Tower is probably 5.11 (according to Peter Croft when I saw him down solo it in 1985). Finishing the Pedestal pitch on Outer Space is tough for 5.6, and the exit on the 1st pitch of Canary is challenging for 5.8.

Every WSU fan I know has a chip on his shoulders. They hate the Huskies more than they love their Cougs. This should shut them up. It will be cool to see if they are even in the top 20.

It is so sad that you can't recognize the N. Face of Shuksan. I thought you were a climber... I just pretend. I'm sorry. I'm not usually this big of an asshole, but this is just rich! Aren't you the one who advised me to "get some perspective"? "Nice shot of Baker." Jeeesh. OK, time to laugh at myself while I'm at it. On my first attempt to climb Mt. Stuart, we started hiking at 2 a.m. (kind of drunk) and missed the trail for Ingal's Lake. Instead, we continued up Ezmerelda Basin (but didn't know it). OK, this is where it gets rich. Just as it got light, we packed up and noticed a large peak sticking out of the fog. We guessed where the West Ridge climb must go and planned our line of approach. Just then, the fog lifted even more, and behind us, 180 degrees opposite of "Mt. Stuart", we saw the real Mt. Stuart. And it was huge, and maybe three valleys away. God we felt stupid. I remember thinking I wasn't cut out for Mt. Stuart.

Which can be difficult while you're trying to balance in a precarious stance. This kind of adventure isn't so popular with many of today's climbers, so they start at the top of the cliff and slide down a rope, stopping ever so often to drill the holes and set the bolts. They then go to the bottom of the cliff and begin climbing up. The shiny bolt hangers serve two purposes. Firstly, they mark the trail so that nonbody gets lost. Secondly, today's climber finds them to be kind of attractive, and so he is enticed into leaving the relative safety of having a bolt by his shoulders and into the bold frontier of climbing until that same bolt is by his knees. At that point, he gets to clip the next bolt at helmet level and he may decide to lean back on the rope for a little rest while he admires that shiny little beauty. I hope this has helped. phaquin precious! fuggin' stoopud... A bolt by my foot and my knee and my shoulder, a goofy big pad that I tote to the boulders. Lycra that matches my colorful slings, these are a few of my sport climbin' things!

Hideous! (That's something you used to say a bunch when we was getting drunk down in Joshua Tree). I wanted to ask you....to the best of your knowledge, is Gutbuster unrepeated? Also, I noticed that Doin' the Dishes is graded 12b in the new guide. Does that sound right to you?

Back in the day we called them stirrups! And that reminds me of the rodeo hump.

I suspect your observartions are entirely too correct! My hardest, most technical on-sight....I can't even remember the name of the stupid thing. Clip, do a move. Clip, do a move. One of these I-90 feel good climbs. The same year, I did a climb two full number grades (that's 8 letter grades) easier in the City of Rocks, but it only had two or maybe three bolts. It was an old Jeff Lowe climb, and I remember everything....EVERYTHING about it. And the funny thing is, because I had to climb with such concentration, with such precision....because every move had to be measured and contemplated, then stored away in memory in case down climbing was required....I think the climb in Idaho was physically harder than the sport route at WWI. Thanks for the link, Chuck. One of my favorite books is Climb! by Bog Godfrey and Dudley Chelton. Colorado has a fascinating climbing history. I love to pick up that book on a rainy night, get a beer, and put on a little Jimmy Rogers.

Which can be difficult while you're trying to balance in a precarious stance. This kind of adventure isn't so popular with many of today's climbers, so they start at the top of the cliff and slide down a rope, stopping ever so often to drill the holes and set the bolts. They then go to the bottom of the cliff and begin climbing up. The shiny bolt hangers serve two purposes. Firstly, they mark the trail so that nonbody gets lost. Secondly, today's climber finds them to be kind of attractive, and so he is enticed into leaving the relative safety of having a bolt by his shoulders and into the bold frontier of climbing until that same bolt is by his knees. At that point, he gets to clip the next bolt at helmet level and he may decide to lean back on the rope for a little rest while he admires that shiny little beauty. I hope this has helped.

Pretty awesome to see a controversial issue run its course without moderators jumping in to delete the insults (and even the opinions with which they happen to disagree). This thread has it all: thoughtful discussion, juvenile insults, obscene language, polite discourse, hyperbolic distortion of the truth, photos of Molly Ringwald.....all of the elements that never would have survived in a heavily edited forum. If this thing had been started in the New Rock Climbing Forum, it never would have left the ground. For the moment (and I don't know if it will last), it seems like the good old days of CC.com are back. Nobody got their feelings hurt, and I managed to throw away hours of what could have been productive time. Awesome! And I for one put just as much effort into trying to understand the perspectives offered by others as I did trying to forward the principles in which I believe. Something to think about is this: exactly what sort of poor behavior did Dwayner display that was not displayed in this thread to the nth degree? Isn't it time to bring good ol' Dwayner back? I think we owe it to ourselves. To the truth! To free discourse! To our superb moderators for allowing this thread to go whichever way the wind blew! To the swift return of Dwayner! To Molly! To Pyramid's Snow Cap Ale!

If you are capable of 5.12 or better, you are prepared for the Bachar Yerian. If you can't climb those grades, you'll need more bolts. You can climb out of control, with more abandon and confidence, you can risk trying a move that you might not really be ready for. In short, you can be a physically weaker climber and climb a heavily bolted route for a given grade. Why use any pro at all then pope?? Why? Why do you get to decide how much is just enough??? THisiz a stupid stance... Now wait a minute, you're the guy always accusing me of being Captain Hyperbole!

If you are capable of 5.12 or better, you are prepared for the Bachar Yerian. If you can't climb those grades, you'll need more bolts. You can climb out of control, with more abandon and confidence, you can risk trying a move that you might not really be ready for. In short, you can be a physically weaker climber and climb a heavily bolted route for a given grade.

I could red point the Bachar Yerian with about 20 bolts on which to pull and cheat and rehearse while I "prepare to send". In its current condition, you need to have 5.12 ability to scale this monument to honest climbing. You see, adding bolts brings a climb physically within the realm of mediocre climbers.