pope

My apologies. I didn't intend to complain about anything, only to offer an accurate history of the how and why behind soft sport grades. You're old enough to know I'm right. Do I have a problem with soft sport grades? Not really. When one needs an ego stroke, he knows where to go. The only potential/theoretical problem is when a sport climber decides to borrow a rack. Perhaps he wouldn't expect to have to climb a full grade lower, but he'll figure it out quickly and probably won't get hurt. I've dabbled in sport climbing, just a couple of trips to Smith Rock when it was raining everywhere else. I used to think sport climbing was better than no climbing. Now when the rain falls I'd prefer to ride my mountain bike or hike/scramble. Smith Rock is a long drive....and for what? What I've noticed about sport climbing is that out-of-doors, it's pretty easy. Off the couch and with a beer gut, I climbed 5.11 all day in North Bend. Similar results at Smith. In fact, one year at Smith I got an 11d first try, tied in with a bowline on a coil. With a big-boobied belayer who left six feet of slack in the dirt at all times. The same year I would routinely get shut down on 5.10+ gear climbs. Out doors, sport climbing is easy. All that is required is 2.5 seconds of staying power to make the clips. Natural rock offers purchases for your feet that your typical sport climber fails to see quickly. At the gym, I find the lead climbs incredibly hard. I used to train Sunday mornings with Scotty Hopkins down at the VC and later the VW. I'd be blasted after a couple of 5.10/5.11- leads. The climbs seemed extra physical. You couldn't employ precise foot work to minimize the pump. Out of doors, these grades seemed easy enough to climb all day, sport or gear.

Huh? I have no prob with BJ's. (Get me drunk enough and I might let you "speak into the microphone"). In fact, I think rock climbers should get BJ's, I just think they should get them the old-fashioned way. They should earn them.

Big Jim is far more qualified to provide perspective than any a-hole who contributes to cc.com discussions, and that includes el jefe, peewee puget, and pope. "Men were manlier in my day?" Got news for you, jefe, this IS his day. Personally, I do believe generational differences account for sport grades which are, with few counterexamples, much easier than equivalent trad grades. By this I mean, most post-1985 climbs are so F-ing easy for the grade. At 5.12 and beyond, I can't comment because I've never been athletic enough to sample such climbs. But up to 5.11 and 5.12-, I suggest knocking a full letter grade or more off a typical sport climb to compute the trad equivalent, for climbs put up in the 80's. I suspect the reason for this is the same reason that popularized sport climbing in the first place. Climbers of low talent, impatient with the learning curve or working through the grades, when climbing harder also meant learning how to fiddle in #3 RP's, and feeling inferior because somebody in California was climbing harder than they were, decided that bolts placed on rap were legitimate. With this development, one could clip bolts on a climb that was technically as hard as some trad climb that he could only ascend via top-rope. With only top-rope ascents (and hangdog ascents) of difficult pitches for perspective, climbers graded their new sport climbs without the knowledge of the true difficulty involved in leading these routes. The second generation of sport climbers was even more lazy and pathetic, applying softer and softer grades so their names would appear in conjunction with the 5.12 grade in the next edition of the local guidebook. In hopes of getting a blow job.

I second that emotion. Once I needed to cut 10m off a jammed rope. Getting down depended on it, but we had no knife. While my buddy stretched the rope across a boulder, I smashed it with a heavy, sharp rock. Wanna guess how many times I had to strike it? Hint: a positive number smaller than two. We were a little shocked at how easily the 10.5 cut. Since then my buddy hasn't complained that his rope is only 50m, so I've concluded that he isn't missing the convenience or the weight of the extra 10m. I recall another spooky experience, when I was lowering a sturdy Norwegian girl off a Leavenworth climb. I noticed a pink "cloud" developing where the rope ran over an edge. The rope, less than one year old and with no falls, was immediately retired when large sections of its core were visible after the top-roping the girl. After reading this thread, I feel the need to make an observation that might not be obvious to sport climbers who routinely fall on skinny ropes. If while trying to "send" your project, you fall off and your skinny rope fails....well....somebody else will be "sending" your project before you do.

11 x 50 is still the way to go, especially with the way today's climbers spend more time hanging/falling than actually climbing.

Big Deal. I did 30 pitches (to 5.10) before lunch and that included Castle Rock, Snow Creek Wall and Givler's Dome. But seriously, any three of the 5.11's on that list would have pumped me out. To climb like that all day is certainly a statement of your fitness. Here's a little suggestion for the next attempt. Substitute Bulkhead Blues for one of the climbs later in the day. Why? Do the crux with slack in the rope. If you slip off, you'll skid down onto a ledge without injury. Then try again. Without putting weight on the rope, you don't have to count it as a fall, according to my friend. He claims I flashed Bulkhead Blues even though I slipped off the crux slab.

He has a Memoir called River Dark & Bright. Haven't read it, but saw it when I was at the Sleeping Lady (founded by, I believe his sister) a couple of months ago. That's worth reading. I picked up a copy after a friend and Vertical Club employee told me about this old character who would take head-first whippers on the lead wall. I introduced myself and informed him I was reading his book. He seemed as tickled as I was impressed. In River Dark and Bright he commented on how disappointingly ephemeral life is. He wasn't the type to squander one minute of it, whether in pursuit of adventure or improving his community through a position of power. He was one who understood the importance and responsibility of leadership.

First David L. Roth climbs the Big Stone....now what do we have? The Jonas Brothers?

Excellent trip report. The standard route is a popular hike and has been rated as "moderate scrambling" or "Class 2-3" in various guidebooks. Even allowing for ski boots and the presence of snow, calling this 5th Class might be pushing it a bit. He called it 5.2. Not sure the difference between 3rd class and 5.2 is worth debating, not unless down-grading somebody's scramble in ski boots gives you the sensation of having a big cock.

There are a couple of climbs that can be done dry in heavy rain. An off-limits wall (the best wall at Fossil, now owned by the Nature Conservancy) averages about 95 degrees and is probably 100 meters tall. That wall has about ten feet of belaying area that never gets wet. As much as I hate sport climbing, I really enjoyed climbing on that particular cliff. Another dry area is under a 40-ft boulder, where routes (to 5.12) were "created" by chipping, drilling and bolting on holds. Those southern boys are way ahead of the times!

I believe Jim Yoder and Marlene Ford wrote a guide. Jim and Mike Massey introduced me to the place, perhaps 20 years ago. The best wall out there features sport climbs to 5.13 and was developed by Mike, Jim, Ted Otto and others. Another Tacoma climber who knows the area much better than I, the only one I can think of who regularly participates on this site, is PhoQ.

Pinkpoint!

Cascades of rain-soaked snow have been launching off my metal roof all afternoon, producing thunder in the house when the heavy snow free-falls onto the lower roof. Shakes the whole house! At least I won't have to remove Christmas lights from the gutter outside our front room....they were avalanched off. Broken glass everywhere.

[video:youtube]bVWZMuSFxns&NR=1

Instead of hiking the Snow Lakes trail, find a service road out of Alpental which always seems to be well-packed and could save you some effort getting into the valley. With a 50 or 60 meter rope, if snow is not well consolidated, you might find the second belay doesn't offer great anchors. I'm sure many options exist, but we found ourselves simulclimbing so the leader could reach good anchors. Probably stretching the first pitch would avoid these problems. For the descent, we belayed down a gully to the south. You may find a piton rap station. I've been up there a few times and never found spectacular snow and ice. On my first trip we climbed the east face and enjoyed perfect sticks with adequate ice screw protection.

Gave the S.O.B.'s an ultimatum with a deadline. "Give me satisfaction by such-n-such date or else all future correspondence will be through our attorney." It worked. They called my wife and said, "We want to do everything we can to help you." Now I believe we have a case. I believe we can demonstrate that their exclusions do not apply. Otherwise, why would they be responding? The plan is to present to State Farm a couple of bids, which happen to be far more expensive than I ever imagined. Then we'll add quantifiable damages incurred as a result of State Farm's failure to act promptly to comply with the contract we signed. Then we'll tell them that the figure is not negotiable and give another deadline for payment. After which all correspondence will be through our attorney. Good plan? BTW, who knows a capable attorney willing to deal with smalish home-owners' claims? I've found an abundance of attorneys specializing in personal injury claims. MattP? Can you suggest somebody?

Happened quickly, during high school. My geometry teacher was such a cool cat...guess he had a HUGE influence on me. I was getting into photography at age 16, so I joined the high school hiking club, which happened to be advised by my geometry teacher. Following his lead, I developed three of my great passions: mountaineering, mathematics, and teaching (probably in that order). I was so inspired by the idea of climbing Mt. Rainier...used to run 8 miles each day, finishing with a hill which when crested delivered a view of Rainier acorss the Sumner valley. I remember mail ordering Dachstein mits and the cheapest ice axe available (from REI) and a negative 15 bag from Slumberjack that Roskelly had supposedly tested on the Big E. I promptly had my Dad drop off me and two friends for a winter attempt on Gove Peak in MRNP, when it was 15 degrees F in Puyallup one winter. Joel still has discoloration on the back of his hands. My neighbor, Joel, was also in the high school hiking club. We later completed the Tacoma Mountaineer's Basic Course...they didn't seem to appreciate our youth and enthusiasm. Joel's family went on a road trip to Yosemite in 1983. He returned insisting that we should go wire-brush this big glacially deposited boulder up in Edgewood, above Sumner. We got some Converse basketball shoes, made some dust bags and swiped chalk sticks from a black board at the high school. The property owner was sympathetic until a friend drilled a top-rope bolt.....then we were ran out of there, denied some of the best bouldering available in the State. That episode helped to form some of my ideals about clean climbing. Joel and I met Chirp through the Mounties. We learned more about rock climbing after one weekend in Leavenworth with Chirp than in all of the Mounties field trips put together. Both Joel and Chirp remain great friends to this day. The only time I've ever been in the back of a police car was with Chirp and Joel, for climbing ice too close to I-90. No ticket was issued.

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXJquFTfB5I

Thanks for caring, Bill. I've got these dickheads in a corner. I'll keep you informed.

Thanks for the advice.....EVERYBODY! Even the folks I often disagree with jumped in offering good advice and encouragement. I've read the policy and exclusions carefully and I believe State Farm is obligated to deliver. Monday I will take it to the next level. Then I will promptly find other insurance.

Where? If you have State Farm home-owner's insurance, don't expect to be helped with water damage. In their exclusions, they will not cover damage related to a "continued exposure to water" or damage related to mold and mildew. So when the inspector arrives and sees a little mold (which can form in 24 hours), or notices water has wicked up sheet rock (which is lined with paper), he'll tell you that "I'm going to attempt to cover you when I present your case but I'm a little doubtful because the evidence suggests the damage was caused by an on-going problem." When you call his manager, you'll find out that the decision to reject your claim was made by the inspector (not some review panel or higher authority) and that the inspector is an expert at making such judgements. Never mind how subjective and vague the language found in the exlcusions happens to be. Never mind that a dishwasher hose split half-way open and sprayed water under pressure all over your cabinets and floor, a machine newer than 2 years and still under warranty. Never mind that you've been a customer for 25 years and have never made a claim. Fuck you, State Farm. If you're "covered" by State Farm, you'd better read the exclusions. You'll find them to be vaguely worded and subject to interpretation, which in the end means your "good neighbor" will not be there when it's time to cut you a check. Fuck you, State Farm. And fuck you, LG Electronics. Life's good? Your P.O.S. does not make my life good, neither does the run-around I get from your customer service department. Similar comments to Home Depot and their extended warranty that I purchased. My house is a mess, my kids are sick, I'm sick. For comparison, a friend experienced similar damage (but more catastrophic). Her insurance had a mop-up crew out immediately. They completely gutted her home. They assigned a licensed, bonded contractor to install new cabinets, new floors, new plumbing, etc., etc., etc.....and they've put her up in a hotel while they take care of her home. And they're giving her a generous food allowance. She's not a policy holder with State Farm.

Do we miss him? 4 yds/attempt is a pretty good average!

Agreed. In fact I completely admire the enthusiasm that many of you are able to generate for Beacon Rock climbing. Based on only one visit, I'm glad it's not in my backyard. It's encouraging to see all of the closet traditionalists defending the Castille. Yes, Damnation is slightly harder to protect than Classic Crack and we like it that way.

You've got my endorsement. I should probably read it first.

Watching this, I was constantly haunted by two questions. When's it going to start? When will it be over?