Dru

I don't think that's what's at issue here. We are always pushing WD on nations, not withholding it. If a nation takes WD on their own willingly and runs with it, and then ends up reverting to religious rule, then that's their democratically chosen choice. That's different than the US going in there and instituting a new and unfamiliar form of government. We don't win any friends that way when our form of government eventually becomes unpopular. We can pick this up tomorrow. I gotta git to my CWMR meeting. its all whatever to me, i just like arguing.... name one 3rd world country where we have successfully imposed democracy, or actually backed up our talk of wd??

see

there is no more flood control

Yeah - all true of course. It's just that of the two guys that post here with names that sound like J...B.... when spoken aloud, its a bit less likely that j_b would be part of the GregW fan club and an occaisional climbing partner. Not impossible, but certainly not as probable I believe you - but how do I know the person that I met last night was really allison and not alicesin or allisten or al_is_zen or some other sound alike.... maybe it was AMBER you met

If "the majority likes it that way" isnt that then democratic expression??? Lets not forget Algeria voted in fundamentalists. Military said no and imposed martial law with backing of French and Americans. Leading to current civil war and massacres. Or military coup in Pakistan... How come democracy works in India but not Africa? Its more like " We western powers cannot let Arabic nations have democracy, because every time they get it, they vote in Islamic rule (...or Benazir Bhutto), which is not in our interest".

i dont think it has anything to do with colonialism... it has to do with not having a democratic tradition... whether you are ruled by a emir or a tribal chief is not much different... the political boundaries of the Arabian peninsula are not natural anyhow any more than Africa's are... Russia had no tradition of western democracy. they had a Duma for like 3 years before the Revolution. Yet Russian democracy is working OK today... rampant corruption and political conniving just like chicago in the 30's or Florida in the last election If you read "Guns Germs and Steel" (not that I agree fully with it's arguments) you will find some interesting arguments that are not racially stated, unlike "Arabs cannot handle western democracy". Cause the Arabs in the Western nations seem to be doing OK. Which I believe may make you wantto reword your original sentence.

Think of the lost buildering (statuing) potential.

Shit I knew the Army was hard up cause they spent all the money on cruise missiles But its really humiliating that they have to use Macs. Gates must not have bribed the right General to get the contract for mil spec laptops.

Now if you were talking Africa would you say "it is not in the black mindset to accept western democracy" ????

probably a third of the kids I went to school with fled Iran either when the Shah was in the late stages of his reign, or when the ayatollahs took over. both regimes sucked bag to hear them tell it. the shah's "modernizations" were like the Saudi "modernizations" and look how popular USA is there now...

The Shah was a nutbar with his own torture squads etc. Why do you think they had a revolution anyways? Of course they went from bad to worse...just like the Russians, off the Czar, end up with Stalin, some change! Or get Gorby to dissolve the USSR and you end up with drunk criminal, Yeltsin.

'tis cause you used a run on word like memememeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee that expanded width of page silly moderators!

I got some 900 fill love for tha honeys

What is a real climb ? In some people's opinion real climbinging is 5.13 and above......can you do 5.13? only when I drop acid and free solo How does that hook taste Stefan a ha ha I finally trolled someone

its a pretty long approach for essentially a pitch of ice.

4/9 y'all

Dru, I am about 99% sure I was at that show too. I was driving up to Vancouver all the time then, because in Canada I was not underage in 1986! I wasnt even AGE OF CONSENT YET then you OLD LADY!!!!!

Actually I have done Tomyhoi from the Yellow Aster Butte trail, probably the same way as Catbirdseat. I remember the climbers path going up quite a ways thereby avoiding quite a lot of brush. Did it in September too. The meadows around Yellow Aster Butte were fantastic--in addition there are several small lakes which you can skinny dip in after your outing to the west of Yellow Aster Butte! I went into one and it was fantastic! Yes and if I was looking for a long hike with some scrambling, instead of a real climb , I would go via Yellow Butte Disaster too...

if you like I can bring a box of protective maple leaf stickers down to Bend this weekend.

wow! an improvised thing or an actual rescue litter and backboard? kitty litter...

never fails

I think that with Iraq out of the way we should now concentrate on the Canadians. I'm sick of waiting in line at the border and that BC and Alberta should be part of the US. They can keep the rest. Let's start a Conquer Canada Campain! just try it and we will slash your tires some more think of the increase in ganja prices a war on drugs would cause erik would have to take up home growing

Damn I hope so!!! SMIFFY TUFFTUFF

MtnGoat, I just find it somewhat baffling that now the U.S. has taken Bagdhad, I am somehow expected to drop my belief that the war was wrong all along. You and others now think that your views have been vindicated because we dropped thousands of bombs and pummeled the Iraqi forces into submission like everyone knew we would right from day one. I'm not certain that I follow your train of reasoning. its funny, only yesterday MtnGoat was saying that "might makes right" was wrong. now he's saying might makes right is correct. next thing you know, he'll declare war on himself.

too late you suck