num1mc

Who said the WAC is going to climb the Tooth? Seems like a lot of conjecture. Their web link state today is "Lets go climbing" at Snoqualmie pass. So that could mead all sorts of things. Also, what proof is there that they have more than 12 people involved, other than Layback (pot) calling the WAC (kettle) black?

I did not agree with the initial decision by REI and their insurance to fight the claim. The litigants lawyers did not name the off shore manufacturer of the bicycle in their suit. Which makes sense in that REI ordered and named the bicycle, and the manufacturer is hidden away in Red China. I agree with the lawsuit and it's outcome so far, I also agree that it is inevitable that it will be contested now that the plaintiff is deceased. I am not a Republican. Since 1980 I have voted for the following Presidential candidates: Anderson, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Clinton, Gore, Kerry and Obama I voted for Slade in 1980, but now think that was a mistake. I also voted against Dan Evans in his Senatorial campaigns, and I do regret not supporting him. I have always voted for the Democratic gubernatorial candidate with the exception of Dixie in the 1980 primary

If you view this without the cloud of emotion, ask yourself: It's business and it makes sense wether you are REI, GMC or miniscule inc. While I am apathetic about REI, I am also apathetic about this turn of events, it is perfectly logical and expected

http://tragerusa.com/look_back

How many people here: 1) Know what a Trapper Nelson is 2) Have seen a Trapper Nelson 3) Carried a Trapper Nelson? My first backpacking experience and later Boy Scout trips were done with a Trapper. Lots o fun

So what? Do we need to go on strike for them or something?

Please excuse me if I don't become overwhelmed with emotion after reading your stirring account of pulling yourself up by your boot straps. The fact that the labor market is depressed in Bellingham does not give one the right to miss categorize employees as contractors for your own book keeping convenience and budgetary measures. The Washington State L&I Board has a publication which neatly lays out the differences between an employee and a contractor ( www.Lni.wa.gov/ipub/101-063-000.pdf ). As a contractor, you know the difference, but your statements belie someone who is only interested in indemnifying themselves against the IRS and lawsuits. But you should also be aware that if the employee (which I will refer to him as of now, because that is what he is) becomes hurt, both his insurance company and L&I will come looking for you for monetary satisfaction. Right there you give yourself away. You have contractors available, but you don't want to pay their rate. So you want to hire an employee, but you don't want to pay the burden and do the paper work. So you want a contractor who really isn't a contractor. Just cheap But you're covering your ass. They better have health insurance. And you're filing a 1099 on him. But it's OK, cause you're doing him a favor

Everything I told you was the truth One less guy in the Home Depot parking lot.

You're not going to find a full fledged and properly insured contractor for $21.75/ hr all inclusive. Closer to double that if you wish knowledge, access to sub contractors where needed and want to indemnify your self by having a properly insured worker. Otherwise in case of an accident you can be easily named in a suit. I think your best bet would be go to Home Depot and find someone who'll do everything you want, tell you everything you want to hear and charge you $15/hr.

John Krakauer opined an interesting opinion of Pat Ament to me in about 1995. I won't repeat it here, but I'm sure that Hugh Conway and John Krakauer would agree.

Only in Colorado Comments please?

Again, do you have anything other than innuendo regarding Krakauer's poor journalistic skills? The link you posted was just a rehashing of a link posted in this very thread about five posts previously. The evidence against Mortenson's financial conversions of CAI capitol and excessive compensation seems very strong.

The whole Kophe chapter is a minor part of this saga. What is really important is the millions of dollars that CAI spent on Greg Mortenson's books. These are facts which Greg Mortenson has confirmed, and which can be reviewed due to the fact they are IRS returns

"Into Thin Air" was primarily a first person account, and does seem to jive with the accounts of others. Boukerev does come off poorly, perhaps unjustifiably so. I did not really come out of "Where men Find Glory" with anything other than the occurrences of fratricide is much much higher than we are led to believe. If you follow Krakauers math, friendly fire could account for about 80% of casualties not caused by IED's. Other than that, there may not have really been a lot of substance to the initial story, and that would have hampered Krakauer. The cover ups were more of a series of FUBAR's and half hearted attempts. I think if you look at the time-line for the development of "Into The Wild", you will see that it was written before some of these scientific findings regarding toxins and the like. Could you elaborate further on these fabrications you find so common and disturbing? That does not seem true. Several sources in the media have examined CAI's IRS returns and budget as posted on their web-site. It appears that many costs were reported as program expenses when they truthfully were fund raising expenses. With this budgetary slight of hand, their program percentage costs were dramatically and improperly increased. Most people understand this, except for some die hard dupes. The costs incurred by CAI to advertise Mortensons books and fly Mortenson around are at best marginal expenses by any non-profit, and in reality should have been bared by Mortenson alone. It is likely that these were a conflict of interest, forced down the throat of a weak board who is under the spell of a cult of personality, by an individual who has succumbed to his own hype. Ron Judd had a front page article about Mortenson several days ago. He recounted that Mortenson telling in 2001 of his first entrance to Korphe was very similar to the story recounted in "Three Cups of Tea". The story in TCT was been identified as fiction, and Mortenson has claimed that the story was constructed by David Relin. But Ron Judd's 2001 interview with Mortenson was prior to David Relin and Mortenson even meeting. So GM's throwing David Relin under a bus to hide his own lies

Where you the biggest, oldest or smartest kid in your class? Anyway, congratulations. Did any of the teachers hit up on you?

But it was the same bed

This subject has been discussed on other forums Link to ST discussion Ownership in this area is complicated, and is divided between the State, several timber companies and at least one individual Link to Snohomish County iMap system and the area is inside the Reiter Foothills Recreation Plan Area Link to DNR While I certainly could be wrong, and I am not fully aware of the actions of the WCC, I know that all user groups will be clamoring for access. It will be difficult to allow boulderers to drive, while forcing hikers, fishermen, hunters, history buffs, mine aficionados and single track riders to walk or bicycle. Washington State Parks has expressed interest in extending trails from Wallace Falls State Park along the old and existing logging roads into this area, but these plans are threatened by budgetary problems The USFS is also happy with this situation. While the creation buffer zones around Wilderness areas is prohibited by law, some sort of defacto buffer to the Wild Sky makes some happy. Reestablishing the road to the Jumbo could increase the pressure for a proper trail to Lake Isabel, something the USFS is against, even though they allow planes to land on the lake The walk is not onerous, and if one branches right fairly early, there is a nice trail which avoids the old road all the way to the Jumbo

Good on you Sobo, payback time for the AAC/Access Fund/TPL/Peshastin Pinnacles debate which ragged between us. I know you've been waiting for me to make a miss step, so you could pounce.

A synopsis: Climbers get off route and benighted in a storm on Hayes, and set off a SPOT like device. USAF to the rescue. http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2011/04/01/1947296/beacon-proves-golden-in-mens-mountain.html Now the questions about both the rescue and the "right thing to do". http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1463619/A-hard-ethical-decision-we-need-help

Here is another recap of a Mountaineers thread from almost ten years ago. http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/25208/1 The thing is, these Mountaineers honchos coming in here to defend things is kind of like a fat guy showing up at a cannibal convention and saying "I smell BBQ! Let's eat!".

Not like BITD

For those who need to keep up on such things http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/16333/1

I was just joking. I know that the Mountaineers have been, and continue to be very involved in conservation and recreation. They have voiced concern, taken stances and been involved in all the topics you have listed. The Mountaineers are not just a climbing club, and some issues may bring about division in the club. The stances of the conservation committee may at times be at odds with the wishes of climbers, and by extension, the climbing committee. This was not always true. Climbers led much of effort to create the NCNP. But the trend for climbing to be more akin to say mountain biking than backpacking has widened some of the gulfs between climbers and strict conservationists. This is easily demonstrated by the constant debate about bolting, fixed draws, tree cutting, chalk, fixed slack lines and stashed pads on this and other boards.

Bla bla bla These are minor points, of interest to only a few. While you were OCD'ing about this tripe, the Mountaineers Climbing Committee was hard at work lobbying the AAC and the UIAA for world-wide standards regarding rope coiling. From this ground breaking work, one will soon be able to receive full club sanctioned certification as a rope coiler. Experienced climbers without certification may apply for special "Advanced Rope Coiling Equivalency" which may be granted after said climber attends a three hour rope coiling lecture, and passes a written test.

I remember Ginger. I was thinking her name was Ginger Baker, then I remembered that Ginger Baker was a he, and played in Cream. I also remember Dick Beckenbaugh, Mike Nelson, Katy Kelso, Erhardt Weichert, Ed Vervoort and Janet Oliver. Big Wall Bob was an interesting person. AJ denied him entrance to the Intermediate Climbing Course because of (accurately) perceived incompetence. That strengthened his resolve and obsession, and he went to Yosemite. As Peder Ourom told me, Bob backed off El Cap ten times before he climbed it. He went on the climb El Cap a bunch, including the fifth ascent of the PO, and the third ascent of Cal and Dave's route on the West Face. But by 22, he was all but out of climbing. He later got in some trouble with big time drug crooks in Mammoth, I believe. He later found god and then off 'ed himself, all before he was thirty. I knew several people who were in the climbing committee, and I remember hearing about the clash of personalities and goals. The seventies were the start of PC, and the Climbing Committee was filled with baby boomers and their (wacky) ideas. I don't know how much the Climbing Committee has changed, but if I look at the individuals I know who are still involved with climbing committees, I would say that the BS has not diminished at all. I'm sure they have many discussions about the best way to coil a rope, and anyone who disagrees with their way of rope coiling is either a hopeless radical, a crazy hieratic or inherently stubborn.