first ascent [TR] Baron Falls Tower–Carpal Tunnel (FA) 8/19/06

[G-spotter]

Griz do not factor into the NCSS rating... neither do Snaffles or length of approach or hangover

[Blake]

I just can't see something liek this being the same grade as the SE corner at beacon rock, something ivan solos multiple times in tennis shoes after work while high as a kite. (sorry ivan!)

[G-spotter]

I doubt that anything at Beacon really gets a III

 

How come WA climbers always talk about soft Squamish grades but never about soft WA NCSS grades?

[Blake]

NCSS?

[G-spotter]

YDS = Class 3, 4, 5 etc. technicxal difficulty rating

 

NCCS (oops) = Grade I, II, III, IV, V etc. tme and overall rating.

 

Grade IV = a long all day climb possibly requiring a bivy on the first ascent.

[billcoe]

Grade IV = a long all day climb possibly requiring a bivy on the first ascent.

 

Soooo, it would be a Grade V for you then? What with the grizziles and your bringing a waterbed and all?

[DirtyHarry]

What with the grizziles and your bringing a waterbed and all?

 

 

Wasn't trying to bag on John and Scott's effort or climb or trying to be armchair climber or whatever, but the route objectively doesn't appear to be Grade IV, given the info from their trip report.

[John Frieh]

I can understand how at face value the route might seem light for a grade IV; however I can assure you it is not.

 

Perhaps a seperate thread in the NEW ROCK CLIMBING FORUM might be appropriate...

 

Thanks for the concern everyone.

[DirtyHarry]

I can understand how at face value the route might seem light for a grade IV; however I can assure you it is not.

 

Out of sincere interest, not pedandics, what about the route makes it unusually time consuming for 6 pitches? Was each pitch sustained and difficult?

[G-spotter]

Can you name ANY other 6 pitch Grade IV's that arent hard aid?

[DirtyHarry]

Is Town Crier considered Grade III or Grade IV? Its about six pitches of moderate aid.

 

(moderators, move this discussion to THE NEW ROCK CLIMBING FORUM if you want)

[jordop]

I think the Dowdle(?) 5.11 route on Baron Tower is grade V 12 pitches from what I recall of the topo at The Perch. Steep walls back dere yonder

[John Frieh]

Blood in the water...

 

1) Overall route length is a much more appropriate gauge than # of pitches... our route was over 1000' long. We employed simulclimbing and a 70 m rope to do the route in six pitches. Just because Hans Florine does the nose in 2 pitches doesn't make it a grade II.

 

2) Pitch ratings for us: 10-, 10+, 11-/A0 (12- free), 5.8, 5.8, 5.9. Not simulclimbing/using a 70 m rope will result in a third 10 pitch.

 

3) The west face of Baron Tower is a seven pitch (the same length our route will be unless others employ the same tactics we did) 5.10 grade IV put up by Reid Dowdle... someone who knows more about ratings than any of us. The west face is the same height as the south west face.

 

4) I would agree that the NCCS does have its shortcomings and if anything perhaps a AG would be more appropriate. However # of pitches is not a correct basis for overall grade.

 

5) Jordan: the route you are thinking of is the North Ridge of Baron Spire which is an 18 pitch 5.11 that is commonly considered harder, longer and more sustained than Beckey/Chouinard. Seeing the topo I would say it makes the complete N ridge of Stuart look like the W ridge of Forbidden

 

6) This forum doesn't have a moderator I believe... at least someone isn't listed at the bottom.

[DirtyHarry]

Fair enough

 

Looks like a sweet route. Good jorb, again!

[G-spotter]

I does look like a quality line

But I still think that it sounds more like a III than a IV. 1000' is only like 330m. Say you did it with a 50m rope and it ended up being 9 pitches instead, I still think it would be a Grade III (sure, in the higher end of III) at that length and degree of sustainedness from the individual pitch ratings. But it sounds like it would be a good Alpine D+ for sure.

 

There was a similar discussion about the NCCS grades a couple of years ago that I have been to lazy to bump up instead of continuing the discussion here.

[texplorer]

A fine outing. Now you know why people leave others to rate their FA's. Whatever the grade, it looks like a fine line and a fun day on the rock. Great job and stay in the NW, I don't need people poaching my lines down here in warm, sunny Vegas.

 

Cheers and congrats on a nice climb.

[powderhound]

No A0 and NO 5.11. In fact lets just call it 5.7, probably not any harder than that.

 

Bill just to put in perspective the 5.11 pitch was harder then that route that I did the day we climb that new route this summer at Rocky. (sorry I forgot the name) It is not like I don't know what 5.11 trad feels like. I spent all summer working and doing 5.11's.

Edited December 13, 2006 by powderhound

[powderhound]

Can you name ANY other 6 pitch Grade IV's that arent hard aid?

 

The other route on the baron falls tower was grade IV six pitchs and 5.10. So....

[powderhound]

A fine outing. Now you know why people leave others to rate their FA's. Whatever the grade, it looks like a fine line and a fun day on the rock. Great job and stay in the NW, I don't need people poaching my lines down here in warm, sunny Vegas.

 

Cheers and congrats on a nice climb.

 

So here is a classic example why time and number of pitchs don't matter. Description of Epinephrine:

Called a grade V, Epi (5.9) is usually done in a long day. Swain describes the route in 18 pitches but with a 60m rope, a competent team can do it it 10-12 pitches. The most famous element of the climb is the 300 feet of 5.9 chimney. . Enjoy this one, it's listed as a North American Classic for a reason!

 

I climbed this route in 10 pitchs and in 8 hours car to car when I was not near the physical or mental shape I was when John and I did Carpal Tunnel. So by G-Spotters standards maybe they should downgrade this All American Classic to a III. :tdown:

 

Just my two cents but what do I know I am just a bumbling gumby anyways.

[powderhound]

What with the grizziles and your bringing a waterbed and all?

 

 

Wasn't trying to bag on John and Scott's effort or climb or trying to be armchair climber or whatever, but the route objectively doesn't appear to be Grade IV, given the info from their trip report.

 

When you bag on someones climb at least get their name right it makes you look like spraying ass that has no idea what he is talking about.

 

By the way my NAME is BRYAN SCHMITZ

[billcoe]

 

When you bag on someones climb at least get their name right it makes you look like spraying ass that has no idea what he is talking about.

 

By the way my NAME is BRYAN SCHMITZ

 

 

Thats funny!

 

________________________________________________________

 

Bill just to put in perspective the 5.11 pitch was harder then that route that I did the day we climb that new route this summer at Rocky. (sorry I forgot the name) It is not like I don't know what 5.11 trad feels like. I spent all summer working and doing 5.11's.

 

I know, I was just messing with Dru/G-spotter, not implying the Baron Spire route really is 5.7 and you're a pussy cause you're not at all. Awesome job.

 

I did solo that Rocky Butte route you mention later and downrate it to 5.8 though:-)

 

NOT! (I did solo it and knowing where the holds are makes it easier.)

 

 

 

BTW, I might be pulling some 5.7 indoors plastic with JF tomorrow.

Aren't you suppose to be doing finals now? ie, shouldn't you be studying instead of trying to keep up with G-Spotters post count?

[G-spotter]

Can you name ANY other 6 pitch Grade IV's that arent hard aid?

 

The other route on the baron falls tower was grade IV six pitchs and 5.10. So....

 

so they're both overgraded. They'd be III in Yos. or Canada

[powderhound]

Can you name ANY other 6 pitch Grade IV's that arent hard aid?

 

The other route on the baron falls tower was grade IV six pitchs and 5.10. So....

 

so they're both overgraded. They'd be III in Yos. or Canada

 

Thats all you can come up with, you are getting soft,.

[G-spotter]

Well speaking of soft brah, what about your Epinephrine claim. That's a "V" in a notoriously gimme grade area where routes like Rainbow Buttress and Black Orpheus each get a supposed IV. WTF, in my opinion the RB-BO link up is a IV (barely) and so is Epi, and your route is half the length and time of those.

[powderhound]

Well speaking of soft brah, what about your Epinephrine claim. That's a "V" in a notoriously gimme grade area where routes like Rainbow Buttress and Black Orpheus each get a supposed IV. WTF, in my opinion the RB-BO link up is a IV (barely) and so is Epi, and your route is half the length and time of those.

 

There's the spit and fire I am used to.