LostCamKenny Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 Greetings folks and happy holidays! Last fall, the Beacon Rock Climbing Association submitted a climbing management plan to the Washington State Parks and the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife. In the thirteen months since that time there has been NO RESPONSE from either agency as to approval of the plan or even comments for improving it. Public response has been just slightly better but we are still hurting for a healthy response from the community. Posted here on this thread are links to the climbing management plan and I humbly ask everyone to take a look at the plan. It totals seven pages (one of which is a cover page) and takes but a few minutes to read. This is an important step: getting everyone to read it and make comments based on the plan's usefulness as a governing and lawful document within the Washington Administrative Code. An official open comment period should follow with the Parks and The WDFW in a few weeks and having enough public input and understanding on the issue will only help the cause. Please, if you have any affinity for Beacon Rock, take a few short minutes to read it over and comment. Even if you have no dog in the fight we invite your comments. Links are below. If one doesn't work please try the other. Comments can be made at either link. Thank You! Link to BRCA Facebook Beacon Rock Climbing Association blog Quote
Plaidman Posted December 7, 2012 Posted December 7, 2012 I have read the docs and have some comments. Where do you want them posted? Quote
LostCamKenny Posted December 7, 2012 Author Posted December 7, 2012 Comments can be made at either link. Comments can be left on the Facebook page or the blog (or via email if one has the correct email addresses already). Thanks very much! Quote
LostCamKenny Posted December 10, 2012 Author Posted December 10, 2012 One other note: we all have common ground in this issue. Years past have shown us that even the wildlife biologist will agree to the southwest face being open year-round. This has been common knowledge for several years and no one is talking about it or trying to make it happen. To have this face opened would represent a victory for access at Beacon Rock, and it would also pave the way for more negotiating concerning the southeast face. Please take the time to offer comments and feedback at either of the aforementioned links. Our voices are our most useful tools and with the many individuals who are as outspoken as we know them to be, it seems like there should be plenty of folks to speak up for this. Please take the time to read and understand the CMP, and offer something to the conversation. Again, thank you all! Quote
JosephH Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Opening the SW face is no problem other than the hellish nightmare of cleaning the lines of oak. But there is no connection between that face and any other relative to the Peregrine closure. If by 'southeast face' you mean the east face then you don't want to go there as it will only open climbing on the entire rock to renewed scrutiny by the tribes. You'd also have to pay for the necessary EIS and review by the WDAHP as otherwise those funds would come out of the BRSP's now non-existent budget and that's not going to go over well. If you mean your proposed 'buffer zone', that will be decided on its technical merit and it's extremely unlikely any amount of public comments will influence that decision. Quote
LostCamKenny Posted December 11, 2012 Author Posted December 11, 2012 the SW face is no problem other than the hellish nightmare of cleaning the lines of oak. But there is no connection between that face and any other relative to the Peregrine closure. Ah ha... See there is common ground! The cleaning WILL happen - that is of least concern. Opening it is what matters. It would be great if you could use your influence with David Anderson to help with this, Joseph. If by 'southeast face' you mean the east face... Nope, we mean the southeast face, the river face - where the majority of the climbing happens. The east face as you describe is another area of common ground that everyone has. No one is pushing to climb there right now so it seems logical to leave that alone. If you mean your proposed 'buffer zone', that will be decided on its technical merit and it's extremely unlikely any amount of public comments will influence that decision. Even if it is extremely unlikely we will let the public voice sound off and make their comments. Everything you have added here can help the conversation, but with respect to the process everyone will be heard who wants to be heard, and we will not move forward on just one person's ideas. Thank you for being constructive, Joseph. Quote
JosephH Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Everyone's voice should be heard and it just isn't about my personal opinions or those of any other individual or group. That's been the whole point. And as I've been trying to get across since 2005, all discussions of the Peregrine closure, and indeed all aspects of climbing-related management, are (i.e. should be) dealt with publicly, honestly, sincerely, transparently, and professionally (unemotionally) dealing only with substantive technical merits of the associated scientific, legal, and policy issues. Stoke, angst, indignation, and hoorah - however deeply held or experienced - have no place at the table when dealing with these issues. It's not that anyone is insensitive, unempathetic, or even unsympathetic to the climbers' plight - it's just how government and the science work and a matter of 'cooler heads'. Good to see some of that reality finally sinking in some, even if the principal motivation for all this remains as single-minded and emotionally-driven as ever. P.S. As far as common grounds on the SW face go, I obliged Jeff Thomas and we rebolted those anchors so they're ready to go, but unless you can get permission to use Crossbow-laden diesel to soak and burn the hundreds of individual oak plants count me out (see tool list and safety gear in my post describing the scope of the problem in the other thread) - and I've done several of those routes and know how cool they are, particularly LLL, but it's just that ugly of a situation and not one to be underestimated. Quote
JosephH Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 the SW face is no problem other than the hellish nightmare of cleaning the lines of oak. But there is no connection between that face and any other relative to the Peregrine closure. Ah ha... See there is common ground! The cleaning WILL happen - that is of least concern. Opening it is what matters. It would be great if you could use your influence with David Anderson to help with this, Joseph. Specifically with regard to opening the SW face, I believe WDFW is willing to entertain this within the context of an established cooperative, non-adversarial, working relationship around all aspects of WDFW's interests at Beacon, but my understanding was/is the issue was actually more one of a BRSP issue than WDFW one and that would be worth checking with Erik, by way of Karl. But trust me, having rapped it recently, opening it is the easy part, cleaning it will require several suicide cleaning missions - better start working on Ivan straight away. As far as my "influence" with WDFW goes, it's entirely limited to what I can factually state, not what my personal opinion is (and they do know what my opinion on the closure is - but it's just that, another opinion). Quote
ivan Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 the key to removing the oak is first renting an old p38 and making several napalm runs before moving in Quote
JosephH Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 My thought was backpack sprayers with Crossbow and diesel when it's good and dry. Let it soak for awhile, say a week, and then, just as it starts to rain, hit it again and light it off. Then as you say, move in for the survivors. Anything else is going to be fairly gruesome given how many individual plants are rooted way back in the crack. Quote
LostCamKenny Posted December 11, 2012 Author Posted December 11, 2012 JH. My experience with you has been what you say/write and what you do is very different. ... And now we are all trying to work together despite our past differences. Thank you Kevin and Joseph for both of your comments! Quote
kevbone Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 ... And now we are all trying to work together despite our past differences. We sure are. Thanks for all your efforts Kenny! Quote
ivan Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 My thought was backpack sprayers with Crossbow and diesel when it's good and dry. Let it soak for awhile, say a week, and then, just as it starts to rain, hit it again and light it off. Then as you say, move in for the survivors. Anything else is going to be fairly gruesome given how many individual plants are rooted way back in the crack. in theory, mechanical means are the only permited forms of plant management, yes? Quote
AlpineK Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 If you look at 2,4-D use rules in Washington State (Pg-11) you'll notice the WS Department of Transportation no longer uses the 2, 4-D or Triclophyr for control Page-9 states Crossbow can be used in abandoned orchards. I can't see Beacon falling under the classification of an abandoned orchard. Beacon Rock brand fruit? In any case application of a chemical like that requires an WS pesticide applicators license or supervision by a license holder. http://www.epa.gov/espp/litstatus/effects/24d/attachment-d.pdf Quote
ivan Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 I can't see Beacon falling under the classification of an abandoned orchard. dunno, plenty of bad apples out there bing! Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Why don't you guys just pay me $5000. By this time next year, everything will be OK. Quote
LostCamKenny Posted December 12, 2012 Author Posted December 12, 2012 In any case application of a chemical like that requires an WS pesticide applicators license or supervision by a license holder. And who's to say what will be left behind after its applied and burned. There's definitely a lot more to learn there - thank you for throwing that out there, Feck Quote
stevetimetravlr Posted December 22, 2012 Posted December 22, 2012 Jim just pulls the poison oak out by the roots barehanded. Quote
JosephH Posted December 23, 2012 Posted December 23, 2012 That'll be a real trick for about 2-300 individual plants rooted two feet back in a narrow crack system and grown into a series of continuous mats, but with the tools and suit I listed earlier on the other thread and three or four days you might pull it off (that estimate being based on the three days it took to really clean out Flying Circus). Better to do it this time of year if a couple of stretches of dry days come along than any other time of year. Quote
ivan Posted December 24, 2012 Posted December 24, 2012 ... if a couple of stretches of dry days come along .... Quote
JosephH Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 Why you don't want the tribes re-involved (East Face closure related) Quote
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