Lambone Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 I especialy liked the one (brief) lead test I gave where the belayer clipped his belay device on the wrong end of the rope (the opposite end his partner was tied into). I actually gave him a chance to figure out his mistake, and he got red in the face cause after double checking every thing twice, he still thought everything was perfectly fine. That was the end of the test. Quote
Off_White Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 My buddy (and climbing partner for 25 years) almost failed a belay test because he'd never used a gri-gri. Hmmm, me either for that matter. Specialed, if you're in San Diego why are you in the gym? Head to Santee or Woodson for the real deal. I could never understand why San Diego has a multitude of gyms with so much real rock and mild mediterranean climate... Quote
daler Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 Just because a partner is a good alpine partner doesn't mean I would let them belay me in the gym. I've seen more bad falls at "sport areas, gyms" by seasoned alpine hardpeople them by the newbie gym leader crew, mostly because of alpine belays at the crag which is not appropiate. Spray Away!!! dale Quote
chucK Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 I especialy liked the one (brief) lead test I gave where the belayer clipped his belay device on the wrong end of the rope (the opposite end his partner was tied into). I actually gave him a chance to figure out his mistake, and he got red in the face cause after double checking every thing twice, he still thought everything was perfectly fine. That was the end of the test. You should have told him, "OK, now take up the slack." Then once he'd pulled the entire rope through the device you could've failed him. Quote
specialed Posted January 22, 2003 Author Posted January 22, 2003 My buddy (and climbing partner for 25 years) almost failed a belay test because he'd never used a gri-gri. Hmmm, me either for that matter. Specialed, if you're in San Diego why are you in the gym? Head to Santee or Woodson for the real deal. I could never understand why San Diego has a multitude of gyms with so much real rock and mild mediterranean climate... Yeah its nice. I rarely go to the gym anyhow. Its about a block from school and I go at night sometimes. Daler - I think that's a pretty good point. Quote
catbirdseat Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 Just because a partner is a good alpine partner doesn't mean I would let them belay me in the gym. I've seen more bad falls at "sport areas, gyms" by seasoned alpine hardpeople them by the newbie gym leader crew, mostly because of alpine belays at the crag which is not appropiate. Spray Away!!! dale What, pray tell is an alpine belay? Explain, if you will, how something that is safe in the alpine environment would be unsafe in a gym? Quote
COL._Von_Spanker Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 Alpine Belay: "Don't fall dude" Quote
wrecker Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 Alpine Belay: "Don't fall dude" Or sometimes the big snoring zzzzz Quote
Off_White Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 Gaze around at the cool peaks, shiver uncontrollably, pull in the rope with both hands to keep up with fast moving partner, skip the offical verbal sequence cuz' you can't hear 'em anyway... Quote
daler Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 If you have to ask the question you should do a little more researh in past posts. Quote
specialed Posted January 22, 2003 Author Posted January 22, 2003 In the dumb-ass gym lead cave you have to stand in the right place and shit so as not to get the rope in the way of the leader. Sport climbers are way serious about their belays because, well, they don't have anything else to worry about and they have to blame someone when they keep falling on the sloper to the monodoit crossover after the fourth bolt. Quote
freeclimb9 Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 You have to pass a test to climb in a gym? What's happened in this world? Quote
TimL Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 I agree and until a couple years ago I didn't know to give a good sport belay or use a Gri-gri. Thank God I've learned. At least for me the tendency for an alpine belay is to pull back were with a sport belay I'll step into the fall which, correct me if I'm wrong, is a more dynamic belay. Now I'll try to pretty much step into any fall no matter alpine or sport because its easier on the person falling and I think on the gear thats holding the fall. I know when I'm climbing and whip I can tell the difference betwen a good belayer and bad. Quote
catbirdseat Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 There was little or nothing on a search of the phrase "alpine belay". So I'm a newbie. Sue me. Alpine belay, as defined above, simply means an "inattentive belay". Even an inattentive belay can be reasonably safe if proper technique is used. Quote
ScottP Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 What, pray tell is an alpine belay? Explain, if you will, how something that is safe in the alpine environment would be unsafe in a gym? I know them as a quick belay during simul-climbing where the belayer does a quick hip belay for the leader over a more difficult or tricky section. Often set up quickly with little or no real anchor other than the belayer being in a secure spot. Quote
daler Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 look at that- three posts at the same time. and this reply gets me to 100 posts. does this change my spray statis? dale Quote
catbirdseat Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 I know them as a quick belay during simul-climbing where the belayer does a quick hip belay for the leader over a more difficult or tricky section. Often set up quickly with little or no real anchor other than the belayer being in a secure spot. That's what I thought he meant, at first, but who would dream of trying a hip belay in a gym? Quote
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 In the dumb-ass gym lead cave you have to stand in the right place and shit so as not to get the rope in the way of the leader. Sport climbers are way serious about their belays because, well, they don't have anything else to worry about and they have to blame someone when they keep falling on the sloper to the monodoit crossover after the fourth bolt. Sweet! More well-thought-out wisdom on "how sport climbers do it"! That's what we need more of around here; some solid generalizations about how petty, egotistical, and stupid sport climbers are. Quote
catbirdseat Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 Welcome to chronic gumbydom. Do you suddenly feel different? Quote
erik Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 dont forget the beer!! dont forget the beer!! Quote
Attitude Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 That's what I thought he meant, at first, but who would dream of trying a hip belay in a gym? I've seen it. There was this guy with a rather large beer gut at the local gym watching his boys boulder. After awhile, one of the boys grabbed a rope, rapped it around his waist a couple times and tied it off while the guy grabbed the other end of the rope for a hip belay. The boy then proceeded to try climbing. Quote
daler Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 catbirdseat, The differance is a big one. In the alpine one usually just sits there and holds the end of the rope and thinks about how the alpine demons are going to get you. a fall is almost always bad and alot of the time you can't see your partner and all you can hear is " !@#$%^&%$##" as the leader is scared shitless. A sport belay is way more attentive and needs to be dynamic most of the time as not to slap the leader. Slapping the leader is when the belay is to tight and they pendulum over the bolt or pro quickly and hit the rock very hard. Easy to prevent with a little practice. As always every situation is differnent and sometime a tight belay is appropiate ie.. when the leader may hit a ledge or something. then the "slap" is the better of the two choices. dale Quote
plexus Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 catbirdseat, The differance is a big one. In the alpine one usually just sits there and holds the end of the rope and thinks about how the alpine demons are going to get you. a fall is almost always bad and alot of the time you can't see your partner and all you can hear is " !@#$%^&%$##" as the leader is scared shitless. dale Dale, you ben climbing Willis Wall again haven't you? I just wish I would bring a neck pillow when giving a belay in the mountains...those pitches last forever sometimes... Quote
specialed Posted January 22, 2003 Author Posted January 22, 2003 In the dumb-ass gym lead cave you have to stand in the right place and shit so as not to get the rope in the way of the leader. Sport climbers are way serious about their belays because, well, they don't have anything else to worry about and they have to blame someone when they keep falling on the sloper to the monodoit crossover after the fourth bolt. Sweet! More well-thought-out wisdom on "how sport climbers do it"! That's what we need more of around here; some solid generalizations about how petty, egotistical, and stupid sport climbers are. Its not overgeneralization, its called the truth. Sport climbers do not have as much experience with the variety of climbing techniques as those who engage in the many other disciplines of climbing. There's a lot to be learned from sport climbing, but I find that too often those that only "sport-climb" tend to take themselves much too seriously. Time for beer Quote
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