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KaskadskyjKozak

Plus ça change...

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THE AMERICAN ALPS PROPOSAL WILL KILL YOU AND EVERYONE YOU CARE ABOUT!
The terrorists have won!

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The entire middle east is a boiling cauldron of fuck and you're going to shoot from the hip that "Islam is a side show"?.......really?

 

you are aware that this here chunk of the world has been fuck-krazy since long, long ago, right? how is it any worse today really?

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who can name the first war the usa fought against muslims and explain the results? :)

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who can name the first war the usa fought against muslims and explain the results? :)

 

does it have to do with the shores of Tripoli?

why yes, yes it does - tripoli's a veritable potomac upon the mediterranean now as a result too, no? :grin:

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you are aware that this here chunk of the world has been fuck-krazy since long, long ago, right? how is it any worse today really?

 

How is it any worse today?

 

The combination of the Arab Spring, terrorism, religious extremism, energy hungry super powers, climate change and civil war have rendered the middle east unrecognizable.

 

We have US, Russian and Chinese aircraft carriers in the Med. (although ours may have left or be switching.) Russia even sent it's big navel muscle....The Muskova, which is, to say the least, quite an escalation of force. There are usually subs escorting carriers.

Multiple Air Forces are bombing multiple ground forces in totally uncoordinated efforts leading to aircraft getting shot down.

 

Russia is carpet bombing cities, using cruise missals and has loosed it's Special Forces on ISIS.

 

The House of Saud is fighting in Yemen against the Houthi Rebels & AQAP that are Iranian backed. The Saudis are also bombing ISIS in Syria and as G-Kiss pointed out funding terror.

 

The Iranians are involved in multiple overt and covert operations with many partners including The Russians, The Iraqis, Houthi Rebels, Hamas, Hezbollah and Al Qaeda. The good news is that Iran is fighting ISIS. Meanwhile at home they are clearly developing Nuclear weapons keeping Israel on edge. Iran could come out better than any Nation from this conflict.

 

Millions of refugees are on the move all over the middle east and north Africa headed to a financially fragile Europe that is getting hit with bold terrorist attacks.

 

ISIS it's self is unprecedented in world history with a combination of wildly extreme religious beliefs, first order violence and barbarism backed by a large web of finical supporters and a seemingly endless stream of recruits.

 

The human rights violations are staggering. Mass killings, mass graves, mass rapes, mass kidnappings, refugee camps, torture, secret prisons, slave markets, burning people alive and disemboweling them. On and on....

 

The craziest thing is essentially none of our interests really align with any of our allies interests. I honestly don't think any person could tell us what's going to happen next.

 

I guess one could make an argument that Jerusalem standing by to be overrun with tens of thousands of sword wielding Muslims is pretty fuck-krazy but not as fuck-krazy as shit is today.

 

I always enjoy reading your comments Ivan with your humor and historical insight...

Edited by Eric T

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The only way to a real, long term solution is a radical redrawing borders in the region. And second, (actually more important) would be developing technologies allowing a complete eradication of dependence on oil, which is the money source and fuel for the entire insanity happening in that part of the world.

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you paint a pretty rosy picture there! it is probably worse than that. :laf:

 

but definitely worse in terms of the weapons technology and tactics with those weapons.

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worse than this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Baghdad_(1258)

or this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Ma%27arra

or this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War

or maybe this (great math problem attached) :) ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Masada

 

i believe the talking heads did a song about this neck of the woods:

[video:youtube]

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How is it any worse today?

 

The combination of the Arab Spring, terrorism, religious extremism, energy hungry super powers, climate change and civil war have rendered the middle east unrecognizable.

 

We have US, Russian and Chinese aircraft carriers in the Med. (although ours may have left or be switching.) Russia even sent it's big navel muscle....The Muskova, which is, to say the least, quite an escalation of force. There are usually subs escorting carriers.

Multiple Air Forces are bombing multiple ground forces in totally uncoordinated efforts leading to aircraft getting shot down.

 

Russia is carpet bombing cities, using cruise missals and has loosed it's Special Forces on ISIS.

 

The House of Saud is fighting in Yemen against the Houthi Rebels & AQAP that are Iranian backed. The Saudis are also bombing ISIS in Syria and as G-Kiss pointed out funding terror.

 

The Iranians are involved in multiple overt and covert operations with many partners including The Russians, The Iraqis, Houthi Rebels, Hamas, Hezbollah and Al Qaeda. The good news is that Iran is fighting ISIS. Meanwhile at home they are clearly developing Nuclear weapons keeping Israel on edge. Iran could come out better than any Nation from this conflict.

 

Millions of refugees are on the move all over the middle east and north Africa headed to a financially fragile Europe that is getting hit with bold terrorist attacks.

 

ISIS it's self is unprecedented in world history with a combination of wildly extreme religious beliefs, first order violence and barbarism backed by a large web of finical supporters and a seemingly endless stream of recruits.

 

all valid points. The current situation seems more and more like a world war than anything else and that's a frightening prospect.

 

The human rights violations are staggering. Mass killings, mass graves, mass rapes, mass kidnappings, refugee camps, torture, secret prisons, slave markets, burning people alive and disemboweling them. On and on....

 

I don't think these are particularly unusual, however. The 20th century is replete with examples of atrocities of this nature and the scale in this current conflict doesn't even compare. Historically similar atrocities have occurred - performed by both Christians and Muslims - in various conflicts since Mohammad's birth.

 

The craziest thing is essentially none of our interests really align with any of our allies interests. I honestly don't think any person could tell us what's going to happen next.

 

Back to the world war theme and prospect. Things do look quite bleak on this front. How can there be any resolution with so many differing sets of goals. And once again the Turks are opposing any type of Kurdish independence. It's become a recurring theme. Good old Woodrow was right about at least one thing.

 

 

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just another day in Murder'n'Merica!!!

 

Could be. Or could be domestic terrorism. It does actually matter though - rather than just stupidly through out the "terrorist" label just because. And Chode-licker is not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer

 

 

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terrorism is terrorism

 

It's definition is actually quite controversial. I prefer going with a narrower definition such as this one (cited on Wikipedia):

 

 

By distinguishing terrorists from other types of criminals and terrorism from other forms of crime, we come to appreciate that terrorism is :

 

ineluctably political in aims and motives

 

violent – or, equally important, threatens violence

designed to have far-reaching psychological repercussions beyond the immediate victim or target

 

conducted by an organization with an identifiable chain of command or conspiratorial cell structure (whose members wear no uniform or identifying insignia) and

perpetrated by a subnational group or non-state entity.[20]

 

[20] Bruce Hoffman, Inside terrorism, 2 ed., Columbia University Press, 2006, p. 41.

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conducted by an organization with an identifiable chain of command or conspiratorial cell structure (whose members wear no uniform or identifying insignia) and

perpetrated by a subnational group or non-state entity.[20]

 

[20] Bruce Hoffman, Inside terrorism, 2 ed., Columbia University Press, 2006, p. 41.

 

So Unibomber was not a terrorist?

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dead is dead - the reason a man murders you doesn't much matter once it's come to that

 

hard to see how terrorists would think hitting a target like this would unhinge people - seems more likely it's some sorta work-place or inter-personal bullshit - or simply just dipshits being crazy and angry, which is really very much at the root of everything like this, no?

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conducted by an organization with an identifiable chain of command or conspiratorial cell structure (whose members wear no uniform or identifying insignia) and

perpetrated by a subnational group or non-state entity.[20]

 

[20] Bruce Hoffman, Inside terrorism, 2 ed., Columbia University Press, 2006, p. 41.

 

So Unibomber was not a terrorist?

or john brown (executed this day 156 years ago and specifically called terrorist throughout the south)?

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I bet the people there felt terror.

 

Ku Klux Kunt needs the "assailants" to be wearing "rags on their heads" like "Haji pull starts" to be "terrorists". Otherwise they are just regular angry 'Mericans improperly exercising their God-given right to bear arms and inadvertently executing people attending a holiday party at a center for the mentally disabled while wearing freely available tactical body armor and AR-15 assault weapons.

 

...with Liberty and Justice for all.

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dead is dead - the reason a man murders you doesn't much matter once it's come to that

 

motive matters. words matter. terrorism applies to certain kinds of acts by organizations with certain goals.

 

by your logic there is no need for a definition of a "hate crime" - we should abolish those right?

 

and there is no difference between vehicular manslaughter and cold-blooded 1st degree murder?

 

hard to see how terrorists would think hitting a target like this could unhinge people - seems more likely it's some sorta work-place or inter-personal bullshit - or simply just dipshits being crazy and angry, which is really very much at the root of everything like this, no?

 

Agreed and I'm sure we will find out more soon enough. It is SoCal... not exactly a new location for mass killing. San Ysidro, anyone?

 

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