Yet another shooting

[billcoe]

Don't give the media coverage your eyeball hours or clicks

Don't click on anything that gives extra attention to the shooter.

Don't fan the flames.

What a bullshit approach....

 

Calling bullshit on your bullshit. The data are VERY clear. People in the US have easy access to guns and they shoot people. You don't hear of mass stranglings or mass knifings. Control guns and the problem goes away. Any idiot can see that. Moreover, the media gives dead killers huge amounts of attention so future would-be gunmen see fame and glory through infamy as their end. And the media makes money, the gun companies make money. Yes, changing gun laws is the obvious solution. If you've figured out a way to do that I'd love to hear it.

 

One very simple way to act is to not let the media monetize these tragedies. Avert your electronic gaze. If killers get no attention the prospect of internet fame will be removed as a lure to would be killers.

 

Maybe you have better ideas.

 

No, that's a good thing. Japan uses that approach. They are horrified that when they see this occur in the US, what follows is a media frenzy to publish photos and stories of the perpetrator. In Japan, they do that for the victims, believing that it reduces the chance of people sympathizing and seeing themselves as the shooter. They empathize with the victims that way.

 

If you pitch this idea out there, everyone says" Oh you can't do that because it will violate the 1st amendment". Yet the news media already does exactly this for suicides on campus. The American Psychiatric assoc. asked them to stop publishing names, stories and photos of suicides as they found that doing so led to copycater after copycatter empathizing and doing the same. Not publishing the info is voluntary for the media, and has led to much a much less campus suicide rate. We need to do the same for shootings.

 

Don't fan the flames, good advice Rad except it should be 1st) studied and confirmed that this is a good thing, and 2nd, make it voluntary for the media to report it responsibly. If it would make even a dent in this BS, it would be worth pursuing.

[billcoe]

For those suggesting that disarming the public is a good thing, google "Operation Northwoods" and see if you still only want the government to be armed. It only takes on sociopath to get elected and everyone will soon forget these kinds of things in the broader context of a gov't ordered mass murder. It's already come close to occuring, who can say how many times. The facts came out about Northwoods all but by accident.

 

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/northwoods.html

 

If you choose to look it up in Wiki, remember that we pay well over 30,000 people through the US goverment, to edit and soften those kinds of files and stories so that the BS the government does doesn't look so bad.

 

"We have never been at war with Oceania". It's here.

[tvashtarkatena]

Best of luck with your impending firefight with the gubmint. Let us know how that turns out. It's awfully hard to hire an attorney when you're dead; pretty much a given when you draw on the Law.

 

I can see having a pellet gun to shoot some squirrel and rat meat when the Big One comes. Frankly, though, traps bring in the yard bacon faster. Some freeze dried, propane, and a water filter seem a bit more useful, though, but they don't make Action Movies about the Fred Meyer Camping Department, do they?

 

 

[ivan]

between the squadron of chickens, the peck of piranhas in the fish-tank, the guinea pigs in the kids bedrooms n' the gawdamn dog, i'm hoping to make it through the first month of the apocalypse w/o having to wander outside for fresh meat

[Pete_H]

Dude, you can only kill so many zombies with a baseball bat!

[ivan]

shit, i ain't no navy seal - a month w/o burgundy n' i'm gonna break down n' throw in my lot w/ my zombie-brethern

[KaskadskyjKozak]

which of these 3 problems is hardest to solve: gun violence, healthcare, immigration?

 

i'm thinking the later 2 are peanuts compared to the first.

 

humans will always kill each other. there is no problem that is 'solvable' here

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Dude, you can only kill so many zombies with a baseball bat!

 

come on, glorification of gun violence in the media and entertainment can not have anything at all to do with gun violence, could it? Encourage everyone to watch as much gun violence as possible!

[glassgowkiss]

which of these 3 problems is hardest to solve: gun violence, healthcare, immigration?

 

i'm thinking the later 2 are peanuts compared to the first.

 

humans will always kill each other. there is no problem that is 'solvable' here

 

Well, just like Jeb Bush, with his "stuff happens" as his comment on the recent shooting, you represent the same miserable logical standard, hence yet again you just prove you support these events.

[glassgowkiss]

Based upon CNN report elected County Sherif decided he will not be enforcing both Federal and State background check laws. If that is indeed the case, he should be charged with a felony in this case.

[ivan]

which of these 3 problems is hardest to solve: gun violence, healthcare, immigration?

 

i'm thinking the later 2 are peanuts compared to the first.

 

humans will always kill each other. there is no problem that is 'solvable' here

I agree, the angry-monkey problem is not solvable - "manageable" is no doubt the better word (but one that would make George carlin angry )

 

and clearly that problem IS manageable - there's consensus on plenty of management ideas already, no? no guns for felons, no machine guns for anybody, etc.

 

I haven't heard anything about this recent shooting that much could have been improved on beyond the NRA wet-dream of "arm everybody" which I still believe would ultimately yield more carnage than it would prevent

[glassgowkiss]

 

I haven't heard anything about this recent shooting that much could have been improved on beyond the NRA wet-dream of "arm everybody" which I still believe would ultimately yield more carnage than it would prevent

 

NRA is a populist bullshit propaganda, with ZERO backing in real life. As the matter of fact, not a single mass shooter was stopped by an armed civilian. Fact is, that most likely an armed civilian would get shot by a SWAT team during the process. In Roseburg there were several people (some of them former military), who were carrying a conceal weapons, yet they did not intervene during the events.

[ivan]

As the matter of fact, not a single mass shooter was stopped by an armed civilian.

not that I've vetted this list, but I remember at least the 2007 church shooting

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/10-potential-mass-shootings-that-were-stopped-by-someone-wit#.ehVw7yNA1

 

again, I'm not saying I'm for this approach, but to dismiss it as totally ineffective is wrong - anybody, cop or civilian, who distracts a psycho w/ a gun by shooting at him is going to buy time for more cops to show up and more folks to escape - whether that benefit is scuppered by cops shooting armed friendly civilians and armed civilians just generally shooting more people at all times I couldn't say

[ivan]

this graph would seem to indicate a decent way to reduce gun deaths is just to reduce gun ownership - seems a no-shit deduction, but whatever...

 

also, just living in a tropical paradise seems a good way not to get kilt by angry gun-toting psychos

 

[glassgowkiss]

which of these 3 problems is hardest to solve: gun violence, healthcare, immigration?

 

i'm thinking the later 2 are peanuts compared to the first.

 

humans terrorists will always kill others. there is no problem that is 'solvable' here

 

Fixed it for ya.

[glassgowkiss]

As the matter of fact, not a single mass shooter was stopped by an armed civilian.

not that I've vetted this list, but I remember at least the 2007 church shooting

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/10-potential-mass-shootings-that-were-stopped-by-someone-wit#.ehVw7yNA1

 

again, I'm not saying I'm for this approach, but to dismiss it as totally ineffective is wrong - anybody, cop or civilian, who distracts a psycho w/ a gun by shooting at him is going to buy time for more cops to show up and more folks to escape - whether that benefit is scuppered by cops shooting armed friendly civilians and armed civilians just generally shooting more people at all times I couldn't say

 

The theory of armed sides works great with gang turf warfare. The facts are simple: even factoring 9/11 attacks, terrorist attacks killed 3 380 US citizens world wide, guns killed 406 496 people (according to cnn.com). That makes it 0.8%, just to put it into a better perspective. If guns is not a public health and national security issue, I do not know what is.

[tvashtarkatena]

We actually know how to curtail gun violence thanks to the CDC's excellent studies, completed prior to the RFks with NRA cock planted firmly up their bums banning gun violence studies by the CDC in the late 90s.

 

It has nothing to do with 'mental health' - there is zero correlation there. That's just another way for the GOP and its buttboys to blame poor folk for the Holding America Back from True Greatness.

 

It has everything to do with drug and alcohol abuse and previous acts of violence.

 

And the solution goes like this:

 

Comprehensive background checks. Got an assault charge or DUI? No guns for you (big data correlation there). Wanna 'sneak one' into your life afterwards? Welcome to felony-land. No guns allowed in prison, sorry.

 

Our gun sickness, and it is just that, is a form of cultural retardation that may stick around for a while, but we might as well knock the obvious candidates of the list of how gets to plink and who doesn't.

 

The arguments against gun control are, of course, bullshit on their face. They go as follows:

 

Nothing to be done. Really? Look around (internationally). Seems like we stand out in the crowd.

 

Safety. Hmmmm, the data clearly shows peeps with guns are more likely to die from them - via suicide, domestic violence, or accident.

 

The 'shoot the perp' argument. This one's a hoot. The last shooter's rampage took all of 9 minutes. Imagine a room full of idiots with their guns drawn (in response). Who do you shoot? Gifford's protector was almost shot by a highly trained gun toter who mistook his protecting her with his body for the assailant.

 

Of course, that's not you, Mr. Responsible Gun Nut. You would never make such a mistake. After all, you're highly trained.

 

Bottom line? Guns are cool toys and Gun Nuts like 'em. That's pretty much the sum total of what's really going on here. I've got several friends in that category who are, thankfully, somewhat on the sane side - you know, they don't post pics of their gun collections on the web in flaccid cyber-attempts to intimidate and such. They'll readily admit that's pretty much all there is to it.

 

The 'revolution' argument is so ridiculous it requires no comment.

 

So cut the bullshit, Gun Nuts and admit what's really going on. Ya just really like to play with guns. You're certainly never going to challenge the gubmint. You can protect your home far safer with a dog or, god forbid, some new deadbolts. No one's 'coming to kill you because, let's get real - you're nobody. And you're certainly not going to be the next French Train Hero.

 

What you will do is a) shoot yourself, b) shoot your loved ones or c) lose friends and kids to gun accidents in numbers far greater than those who don't own guns.

 

 

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

Politically, we need to take down the NRA the way we handed that organization its ass in WA state. There's no 'convincing' or 'compromise' here - this is solidly an Us against Them situation. If Us outnumbers Them at the voting booth, Us wins.

 

The idea of 'unity' in America on an issue like this is a crock. The smarter, tougher, more organized, and richer side wins here, plain and simple.

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

I think its fair that we apply the same 'safeguards' when purchasing a gun as we do to women who want to terminate an unwanted pregnancy.

 

a) You'll have wait 48 hours.

b) You'll need a note from your doctor.

c) You'll need to drive two states over for the actual purchase.

d) You'll have to have a probe shoved up your ass first (true in some states, actually). Admittedly, this one's probably just to fuck whicha.

[JasonG]

 

Mass shootings are scary and becoming more common (at least according to the FBI stats), but the fact remains that we are safer now than we have been in decades. Stricter gun control could save lives, and is probably a good idea, but it isn't like things are spiraling out of control right now.

[tvashtarkatena]

why dont you ask the folks in Roseburg about that?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I haven't heard anything about this recent shooting that much could have been improved on

 

Yep. I agree, that unfortunately that's the case.

 

 

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Stricter gun control could save lives, and is probably a good idea, but it isn't like things are spiraling out of control right now.

 

[ivan]

the only deadly weapon ole'pat's pack'n is between his legs, and whol-eee shit how i'd like not to see it again if ever i could

 

it being such an ossified issue, i see little hope of shifting anyone - the pt is that any one gun incident is largely irrelevant in terms of addressing the overall problem of more americans dying via guns, per capita, than the rest of the civilized world - newburg ain't un-important, it's just a small part of a much bigger picture - do you really object to tvash's main practical argument above: comprehensive background checks?

[glassgowkiss]

Mass shootings are scary and becoming more common (at least according to the FBI stats), but the fact remains that we are safer now than we have been in decades. Stricter gun control could save lives, and is probably a good idea, but it isn't like things are spiraling out of control right now.

 

Number of dead in terrorist acts (including 9/11): 3380 (world wide), number of gun related deaths since 9/11: 406 496. Want to continue arguing about the numbers? Why aren't the acts of mass shootings treated as cases of domestic terrorism? They are, hence both FBI and NSA should use the very same methods of investigation. Buying 14 pieces of guns in a span of a few months (basically stock piling of guns and ammunition) should trigger a knock of an FBI agent on your door.