Wilderness Act 50th

[telemarker]

In honor of the Wilderness Act's 50th birthday, I think I shall go build a cairn on Asgard Pass. What do you have planned to honor the occasion?

[DPS]

In honor of the Wilderness Act's 50th birthday, I think I shall go build a cairn on Asgard Pass. What do you have planned to honor the occasion?

I'm going to knock it over.

[ivan]

rap bolting with an electric drill

[Eric T]

50th Anniversary of the Wilderness act, what a profoundly landmark piece of Legislation!!!!

 

The Wilderness Act is the only meaningful action by the US Federal Government to protect our wild places.

 

Did you see the article in National Geographic (Sept 2014) titled "50 Years of Wilderness"? Please read this short passage from the article....

 

"The Wilderness act was signed into law by President Lyndon Johnson on September 3, 1964. But to understand the genesis of the act, you have to go back another three decades, to the 1930's. During the Great Depression tens of thousands of Americans were put to work by the Federal Government in National Parks and Forests. They cleared trails, erected shelters, and laid down mile after mile of pavement. The Going-To-the-Sun-Road in Glacier National Park was opened in 1933, Skyline Drive in Shenandoah National Park in 1939. The new highways opened up the parks to millions more visitors.

But the very success of these efforts troubled many conservationists, who were worried that THE MOST MAJESTIC LANDSCAPES WERE BEING TURNED INTO SO MANY ROADSIDE ATTRACTIONS.

 

A group of them, including Aldo Leopold, got together to defend the National Parks and Forests against overuse. They called themselves the Wilderness Society and their first mission statement denounced the roadbuilding "craze." "

 

Our Wilderness areas in Washington State are under attack!

Not by some mining or logging firm but by greedy and unsupervised agencies of the Federal Government.

 

I just did a long solo in the North Cascades and when I arrived on the South Cascade Glacier I was beside myself appalled at the trash and buildings there from a USGS Glacier study that has been ongoing for more than 50 years.

 

What shocked me even more, upon researching said site, is the USGS is now trying to get a permit for 20 more years of research on The South Cascade Glacier.

 

This troubles me for many reasons. First why is there a mess on our Glacier form the last project? So much for think globally and act locally. Maybe the USGS thought because they're doing something noble in researching ice loss that they could simply abandon common sense and litter a place with a leave no trace policy. Hey, if you're going to have a standard, you might as well make it a double.

 

An exceedingly astute PhD once posited to me that most Government Research jobs are a lot like welfare for educated people.

That’s how I see this 20 year project on the South Cascade Glacier. It’s not like the writing isn’t on the wall; we all know what’s happening. The climate’s warming and we’re not doing anything to change our ways, hence our glaciers are melting; GOT IT! We don’t need a Government research study on the South Cascade Glacier to tell us that.

How about they just come back and clean up their mess and call it good.

Here’s a link to a letter from Wilderness Watch.

 

http://www.wildernesswatch.org/pdf/WW_Comments_Darrington_Scoping_6_2013.pdf

 

I can tell you from just walking trail 769 along the Cascade River it's rough and pack trains cannot pass it. It would be very challenging for an average hiker. Meaning that they will have to use helicopters to clean the Glacier which is a violation of the Wilderness act in and of itself.

 

I really believe we need to get behind these folks at Wilderness Watch.

 

Now back to what the National Geographic article was saying, The National Park Service puts themselves ahead of the needs of the land. They peddle some of the most sacred places in the American Wild for entrance fees and parking.

 

Think how special Cascade Pass and Sahale Arm would be if there was no parking lot 3.7 miles away; if you could stand there and actually have a Wilderness experience. All it would take is moving the parking lot back to the Park boundary, or Wilderness Boundary if there were no more Park.

 

The best thing that could ever happen to the North Cascades is if it were simply The North Cascades Wilderness Area without the National Park Service designation painted over it.

 

They actually want a Park expansion to build a big lodge and more roads in The North Cascades. They just don’t get it.

 

The crazy thing about my comments is I’m not an environmentalist or an activist; I just don’t like being taken advantage of and I’m pissed every time I see wild places being exploited so some jerk off can have a job.

 

If we don’t say something or do something no one’s going to.

 

The South Cascade Glacier is right in the Middle of the Ptarmigan Traverse, no one else is going up there but us.

 

Edited September 4, 2014 by Eric T

[tvashtarkatena]

From the USGS page:

 

"The South Cascade Glacier is one of three benchmark glaciers studied by the USGS for the effects of changes in climate. The mass-balance scientific record for South Cascade Glacier is the longest of its kind in North America and is used by climate scientists worldwide."

 

Should they clean up the garbage dump (with choppers)? Yes.

 

Should they stop this research? No.

 

 

[num1mc]

 

They actually want a Park expansion to build a big lodge and more roads in The North Cascades. They just don’t get it.

 

Source for that?

[Eric T]

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2019048690_park02m.html

 

http://www.americanalps.org/

 

http://noparkexpansion.blogspot.com/

 

Protecting the land with a Wilderness designation is elegant and real protection. Making the land a national park is peddling it at best and serves the Park Service and there interests.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Eric T

[tvashtarkatena]

Someone should blow up that stupid new rock/sign with the fake painted snow. Cheerist, it'd look better in front of a mall.

 

 

[Rad]

Someone should blow up that stupid new rock/sign with the fake painted snow. Cheerist, it'd look better in front of a mall.

 

I agree that it's an atrocity that looks like it was stolen from the Yeti's lair in the Matterhorn ride at Disneyland, but it reminds you that you're driving through a National Park, which might not even occur to most people as there is no gate to collect high entrance fees (don't give them any ideas!).

 

[Fairweather]

 

I just did a long solo in the North Cascades and when I arrived on the South Cascade Glacier I was beside myself appalled at the trash and buildings there from a USGS Glacier study that has been ongoing for more than 50 years.

 

What shocked me even more, upon researching said site, is the USGS is now trying to get a permit for 20 more years of research on The South Cascade Glacier.

 

This troubles me for many reasons. First why is there a mess on our Glacier form the last project? So much for think globally and act locally. Maybe the USGS thought because they're doing something noble in researching ice loss that they could simply abandon common sense and litter a place with a leave no trace policy. Hey, if you're going to have a standard, you might as well make it a double.

 

An exceedingly astute PhD once posited to me that most Government Research jobs are a lot like welfare for educated people.

That’s how I see this 20 year project on the South Cascade Glacier. It’s not like the writing isn’t on the wall; we all know what’s happening. The climate’s warming and we’re not doing anything to change our ways, hence our glaciers are melting; GOT IT! We don’t need a Government research study on the South Cascade Glacier to tell us that.

How about they just come back and clean up their mess and call it good.

Here’s a link to a letter from Wilderness Watch.

 

http://www.wildernesswatch.org/pdf/WW_Comments_Darrington_Scoping_6_2013.pdf

 

I can tell you from just walking trail 769 along the Cascade River it's rough and pack trains cannot pass it. It would be very challenging for an average hiker. Meaning that they will have to use helicopters to clean the Glacier which is a violation of the Wilderness act in and of itself.

 

I really believe we need to get behind these folks at Wilderness Watch.

 

Now back to what the National Geographic article was saying, The National Park Service puts themselves ahead of the needs of the land. They peddle some of the most sacred places in the American Wild for entrance fees and parking.

 

Think how special Cascade Pass and Sahale Arm would be if there was no parking lot 3.7 miles away; if you could stand there and actually have a Wilderness experience. All it would take is moving the parking lot back to the Park boundary, or Wilderness Boundary if there were no more Park.

 

The best thing that could ever happen to the North Cascades is if it were simply The North Cascades Wilderness Area without the National Park Service designation painted over it.

 

They actually want a Park expansion to build a big lodge and more roads in The North Cascades. They just don’t get it.

 

The crazy thing about my comments is I’m not an environmentalist or an activist; I just don’t like being taken advantage of and I’m pissed every time I see wild places being exploited so some jerk off can have a job.

 

If we don’t say something or do something no one’s going to.

 

The South Cascade Glacier is right in the Middle of the Ptarmigan Traverse, no one else is going up there but us.

 

Good post. Maybe the hypocrisy of this vested welfare crowd is part of what makes their interpretations suspect?

 

Does the Wilderness Act itself have something to do with the trash? IOW, have the NCCC and WW blocked efforts to heli out the garbage? (Serious question, I don't know the answer.) I read a post recently asking for help cleaning up the research station on Olympus Snow Dome. Same story?

 

As for Wilderness Watch, well, I couldn't disagree with you more. Non-motorized access equals wilderness advocacy. I understand Leopold, Yard, Marshall very well, but locking out responsible users and supporters in the 21st Century is a bad idea--and still it remains at the core of what drives WW, NCCC, Audubon. Their missions are no longer conducive to reasonable access to outdoor recreation--climbing included. Sierra Club, however, seems to be coming around.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Fairweather

[Pete_H]

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2019048690_park02m.html

 

http://www.americanalps.org/

 

http://noparkexpansion.blogspot.com/

 

Protecting the land with a Wilderness designation is elegant and real protection. Making the land a national park is peddling it at best and serves the Park Service and there interests.

 

So your saying you're against a Telepherique up the Sahale Arm and a 30 bed hut / gasthaus at the summit? Well I guess I won't count on you for support when I start circulating the petition then.

[Fairweather]

I agree that it's an atrocity that looks like it was stolen from the Yeti's lair in the Matterhorn ride at Disneyland, but it reminds you that you're driving through a National Park, which might not even occur to most people as there is no gate to collect high entrance fees (don't give them any ideas!).

 

They already have the idea. In fact, it's what lies at the core of their support for NOCA expansion to include Ross Lake NRA, WA Pass area, and a huge chuck of Glacier Peak Wilderness. North Cascades is the least visited national park in the lower 48. This makes sense--since they've gone to great lengths to lock everyone out. No reason, IMO, to let them start claiming Hwy 20 as their own.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Fairweather

[ivan]

i like roads - nothing says your back down to the land of the living like fat people swarming all around them

[Eric T]

Does the Wilderness Act itself have something to do with the trash? IOW, have the NCCC and WW blocked efforts to heli out the garbage?

 

Only that the trash on The South Cascade Glacier is in The Glacier Peak Wilderness Area hence it must be dealt with IAW The Wilderness Act.

I don't think any agency has blocked any plan to remove trash. I don't think any one has made a plan.

The trail is in bad shape, the only way to get anything from supplies to new buildings to removing trash will have to be air lifted to or from The South Cascade Glacier.

 

IDK what WW thinks of air lifted trash removal, I'm guessing that they'd make an exception to have the site cleaned up.

 

Non-motorized access equals wilderness advocacy.

 

You're God Damn right it does!!! Access and Wilderness are not symbiotic!

 

Fairweather, weren't you the guy pissed off over a couple of bolts on Jello tower? So a couple of bolts has you quoting the Patagonia Catalog but an entire road in a wild place you're OK with so you don't have to inconveniently walk?

 

In fact, it's what lies at the core of their support for NOCA expansion to include Ross Lake NRA, WA Pass area, and a huge chuck of Glacier Peak Wilderness. North Cascades is the least visited national park in the lower 48. This makes sense--since they've gone to great lengths to lock everyone out. No reason, IMO, to let them start claiming Hwy 20 as their own.

 

No one is locked out. Only the lazy and pathetic who are trapped inside their own fat prison are locked out.

 

WA Pass isn't included in the expansion plans. If it were I'd be a freshly minted Eco-Terrorist.

 

NCNP is the second least visited National Park in the lower 48 behind a Park on an Island in the Great Lakes.

 

The reason we are the second least visited is the terrine. If you can't drive by and look at it or sit in your motor home and enjoy it your average Park user doesn't want to see it.

 

Do you know how much time the average visitor in Joshua Tree National Park spends inside the park?

 

3 hours.

 

That's enough time to drive in to Hidden Valley, walk around for 30 minutes, use the bath room and leave.

 

My point being no matter how many drive by few stop and use or explore. So that number (20,000 Visitors) isn't an apples to apples comparison to other parks because The NCNP's 20,000 users are actual hikers or climbers leaving the road to walk. Where other parks are counting every car that just drives in and out.

 

But look closer at J-Tree. The Park Service knows the majority just drive in and look around and leave. So in essence the Park Service promotes J-Tree as one of Americas most special places so they can peddle gate passes to motorists to make a buck. Who cares how sensitive the desert is to impact and overuse? Not the Park Service.

 

Like wise, because of easy access, one CAN'T camp above the tree line at Sahale Camp without a bear canister.

A known Park rule is anyone CAN camp above the tree line without a bear canister.

Then why not at Sahale Camp above the tree line?

Because easy access and overuse in the same spot have established a problem rodent population.

You could walk north or south along the crest and camp anyplace you like without an issue, without a bear canister.

Now they want Grizzly Bears? Don't they realize that if they stopped encroaching on habitat so hard and removed themselves and their roads the Brown bears might just come back on their own?

 

 

Maybe a good way to deal with the buildings at The South Cascade Glacier would be to disconnect the lighting arrester and let Mamma Nature have her way....I didn't have a wrench with me.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Eric T

[Pete_H]

No one is locked out. Only the lazy and pathetic who are trapped inside their own fat prison are locked out.

 

So why create more barriers to access? So that the .000000000000000001 per cent of the population that will bushwack 5,000 vf are the only people that get to appreciate the splendors of the area?

 

For a country that has a fat problem we definitely never seem to do much that will encourage people to be active and enjoy the outdoors.

 

One of the biggest reasons why there's an overuse issue at cascade pass is that it's one of the few alpine spots in the N Cascades that does have reasonable access. Clearly if more areas were accessible use would be much more spread out and wouldn't be a big problem. Furthermore, lack of permanent shelters (such as low impact huts, ubiquitous in B.C.) would actually reduce impact as it consolidates and makes use easier to manage.

[Pete_H]

I think the N Cascades are big enough that it is reasonable policy to improve access to some areas while keeping access to much of it naturally challenging.

[DPS]

Furthermore, lack of permanent shelters (such as low impact huts, ubiquitous in B.C.) would actually reduce impact as it consolidates and makes use easier to manage.

Excellent point, I've been beating that drum for a while now.

[num1mc]

 

They actually want a Park expansion to build a big lodge and more roads in The North Cascades. They just don’t get it.

 

Source for that?

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2019048690_park02m.html

 

http://www.americanalps.org/

 

http://noparkexpansion.blogspot.com/

 

Protecting the land with a Wilderness designation is elegant and real protection. Making the land a national park is peddling it at best and serves the Park Service and there interests.

 

Where does it mention the new lodge and roads?

[num1mc]

 

WA Pass isn't included in the expansion plans. If it were I'd be a freshly minted Eco-Terrorist.

 

Actually that is not correct. The Liberty Bell area of the proposed NOCA expansion is "the watershed boundaries of Bridge Creek, and the NP to the south" Appendix 2 of the AALP. This would include everything west and south of the NW Face of Liberty Bell to the South Ridge of South Early Winter Spire.

[Fairweather]

 

IDK what WW thinks of air lifted trash removal, I'm guessing that they'd make an exception to have the site cleaned up.

I can almost guarantee you they wouldn't. In any event, how did we ever get to the place where we need a radical advocacy group's authorization to "make an exception" to the exceptions already present in the Act itself for Administration, Historic & Cultural, etc.?

 

 

 

Fairweather, weren't you the guy pissed off over a couple of bolts on Jello tower? So a couple of bolts has you quoting the Patagonia Catalog but an entire road in a wild place you're OK with so you don't have to inconveniently walk?

No, wasn't me. I believe my contribution to that discussion had more to do with the locals stating a belief that Castle Rock management decisions were theirs alone.

 

No one is locked out. Only the lazy and pathetic who are trapped inside their own fat prison are locked out.

Well, that's the most openly elitist rhetoric I've read in a while. What about workers who don't have two disposable weeks? This was also one of Leopold's premises. In fact, wilderness is a great escape valve from capitalism--not a playground for a bureaucrat class that is already well-insulated from it.

 

Stehekin Road is a glaring example of my "locked-out" premise. You can't even bike the road anymore as it's been "enclosed" in the surrounding Stephen Mather Wilderness. Unbelievable.

 

WA Pass isn't included in the expansion plans.

It most certainly is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Fairweather]

No one is locked out. Only the lazy and pathetic who are trapped inside their own fat prison are locked out.

 

So why create more barriers to access? So that the .000000000000000001 per cent of the population that will bushwack 5,000 vf are the only people that get to appreciate the splendors of the area?

 

For a country that has a fat problem we definitely never seem to do much that will encourage people to be active and enjoy the outdoors.

 

One of the biggest reasons why there's an overuse issue at cascade pass is that it's one of the few alpine spots in the N Cascades that does have reasonable access. Clearly if more areas were accessible use would be much more spread out and wouldn't be a big problem. Furthermore, lack of permanent shelters (such as low impact huts, ubiquitous in B.C.) would actually reduce impact as it consolidates and makes use easier to manage.

 

Good post. (For once. )

[Eric T]

Actually that is not correct. The Liberty Bell area of the proposed NOCA expansion is "the watershed boundaries of Bridge Creek, and the NP to the south" Appendix 2 of the AALP. This would include everything west and south of the NW Face of Liberty Bell to the South Ridge of South Early Winter Spire.

 

num1mc and fairweather I stand corrected, I didn't think it got all the way east to Wa Pass.

 

Where do you guys stand on the Park expansion?

 

Remember it's not just me stumping on this access and road issue, it's a historically significant and Nationally celebrated group of Conservationists. And Nation Geographic is highlighting their ideas in a feature article because were celebrating 50 years of some really great Federal Laws that are getting ignored in our backyard.

 

And I agree with you guys that Canada has some pretty amazing outdoor practices and management policies. But were not Canada and we have the Wilderness Act so we won't be building huts.

 

 

I can almost guarantee you they wouldn't. In any event, how did we ever get to the place where we need a radical advocacy group's authorization to "make an exception" to the exceptions already present in the Act itself for Administration, Historic & Cultural, etc.?

 

Because no concerned climbers spoke up and did something about it. And I don't care if WW or who ever doesn't want air lift then have a fire and consolidate the trash that can't be removed to a hidden spot and cover the stuff with rocks.

 

But for the love of Pete, let's do something.

 

And Fairweather you were right it wasn't you with the Patagonia catalog line.

 

And maybe Tvash is right the research should go on but practices of the USGS need to change on a dime.

 

 

And sorry to come off as a fat elitist but we all can't do everything in life. We all can't be a NASCAR driver or a Skydiver or President or a Genius and not all of us can transit ourselves to mountain tops. I didn't make those rules.

And fat people can make changes in their lives if they want to and go to remote places if they want to. And I encourage every one of those fat people to change.

 

Maybe the Park service should have free jelly doughnut day on Salhale Arm to encourage overweight folks to come up there? How inclusive was that?

 

 

Edited September 6, 2014 by Eric T

[Water]

Just to chime in from the 'fat person' perspective. I was in the best shape I'd been in since finishing an Appalachian thru hike in 07 when I fell a mere 3-4 foot climbing the day after Christmas in 2013. I ended up needing surgery, and only in the last month have I started "hiking" again (6 miles).. I'm not really in bad shape, prob lost 4 lbs of muscle gained 7lbs of fat. But everything has gone better than average for me. This year has actually been pretty wonderful for the car-camping experience. A wedding two weekends ago at the learning center on lake diablo I was relegated to measly pyramid lake hike.

 

I have a lot of sympathy and compassion for those who are not able, this injury could have very well been the end of pain free walking. So...maybe there are already more than enough "accessible" places and we don't need to make the last few remaining spots conform to car culture--but please have just a smidge of sensitivity for many many people who are not fully able bodied through no direct fault of their own.

[num1mc]

I can almost guarantee you they wouldn't. In any event, how did we ever get to the place where we need a radical advocacy group's authorization to "make an exception" to the exceptions already present in the Act itself for Administration, Historic & Cultural, etc.?

 

Because no concerned climbers spoke up and did something about it. And I don't care if WW or who ever doesn't want air lift then have a fire and consolidate the trash that can't be removed to a hidden spot and cover the stuff with rocks.

 

But for the love of Pete, let's do something.

 

And Fairweather you were right it wasn't you with the Patagonia catalog line.

 

And maybe Tvash is right the research should go on but practices of the USGS need to change on a dime.

 

How did the glacier station on the South Cascade, Wildness Watch and the USGS even get into this conversation? And why couldn't a helicopter be used to access and clean up the area? That station has been in use since the '50's, predating the modern Glacier Peak Wilderness.

 

I think you're making some awfully big assumptions here. I doubt that permission is needed from WW. But once you ask them, you put yourself into the hole of forever needing their permission.

Edited September 6, 2014 by num1mc

[num1mc]

 

num1mc and fairweather I stand corrected, I didn't think it got all the way east to Wa Pass.

 

Where do you guys stand on the Park expansion?

 

 

I have always been for Wilderness. But I am concerned with the imposition of bureaucrats into any recreation. I do question the need for this turf grab.

 

http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7994404&highlight=