Best knots

[Cpt.Caveman]

Yeah two ropes with one overhand is what I meant. Technical heheh.

[Skisports]

why would you tie in with an overhand with half ropes why not use a figure 8

[Cpt.Caveman]

I use an overhand it works fine every time with long stands.

[fleblebleb]

More on this here.

[lemon]

granny knots work great with my boots. They are easy to use in the dark with cold fingers, easily double for extra security and are easily taken out of the laces.

[catbirdseat]

You GOT to be kidding! An overhand knot for a V-Thread? I'm with you. Stick with the double fisherman's knot. This is a knot that is a "leaver". You don't give a shit how hard it may be to untie and unlike a rappel rope, you don't care how big the knot is, either. I'm only grudgingly coming around to the idea of the overhand knot (Euro Death Knot) for rappels, because it causes the rope to become stuck so less often. No doubt about it, the overhand knot is less secure, but is used despite that for a very good reason. That reason is not there for a V-Thread.

[catbirdseat]

Yes, I know the butterfly. It is a good, strong knot and easy to tie. However, as a middleman knot, it still requires the use of a locking biner, whereas the double bowline does not.

[catbirdseat]

Isnt' the Radium hitch simply the well-known Munter-Mule knot?

[iain]

I thought the Euro death knot is the same as a figure 8 but with two ropes tied together.

negative on that, there's been at least one fatality attributed to figure 8 instead of EDK.

 

Radium hitch is mainly used in organized rescue per the Mauthners out of Invermere BC. It is a munter hitch with a 3:1 system, most often used to release set prusiks on a rescue belay and as a shock absorber to protect the anchor.

[catbirdseat]

Some people use a figure eight to join two ropes because it is easier to untie than a double fisherman. If you do, back it up with a half-fisherman's (or grapevine) on each end. It still jams like a double fisherman when you go to pull it. Might as well use a square knot instead- it's faster (again, w/ half-fisherman's backups).

[iain]

ah yes, I was thinking of the 8 in a similar config to the EDK. I'd say a square knot or double sheet bend would be easier (faster) to tie than an 8 in the above application (w/half-fisherman's). Anyways I use the EDK w/o hesitation.

[fleblebleb]

Hey Iain, can you explain how the Figure 8-EDK fails? Does it invert?

[iain]

yeah, exactly. It flips and unties easier in that application, from what I understand. I think this was discussed in a thread some time ago.

[iain]

Actually it looks like you pointed to the previous thread on the figure-8 edk earlier in this thread

[b-rock]

Isn't there some big name climber who (proclaimed he) only knew 4 knots and that was enough for anything he needed to do?

 

I believe it was attributed to Jim Bridwell by John Long in his Anchors book.

[Gary_Yngve]

Re EDK:

EDK tests

[catbirdseat]

The EDK seems to give very inconsistent test results even when consistently tied. It seems to me that eventually someone will figure out some kind of mechanical backup device that would clamp the rope and act as a failsafe to the EDK. It would have to be large enough that it would prevent the tails from pulling through the knot.

 

Here's a chance for some inventor out there to get a patent and make a few $$$. Said device would have to be light, compact, reliable and inexpensive. It would also have to be coated in thick rubber or foam so as to not kill someone when it falls with the rope, and it has to be low profile so it doesn't cause the rope to hang. Sounds pretty tough to do, but then there are some pretty clever people in this world.

[COL._Von_Spanker]

 

Nevermind

Edited January 6, 2003 by COL._Von_Spanker

[iain]

okay, nevermind

Edited January 6, 2003 by iain

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

What about the DBBB, people? None better for hangdogging applications. Strong like a truck, easy to untie like butter. Yep.

[Thinker]

Besides using the munter hitch as a backup belay/rappel technique, the munter mule combination is the mainstay of self-rescue technique. This combination of knots allows loaded anchors to be released (i.e. unweighted) while slowly loading the weight back onto the climbing rope or another anchor. If you ever run thru the scenario in the field you'll gain a whole new appreciation for this technique. 'Self Rescue', Falcon Guide Series, by David Fasulo has about the clearest presentation of the material I've seen.

[freeclimb9]

Besides using the munter hitch as a backup belay/rappel technique, the munter mule combination is the mainstay of self-rescue technique

??

I thought the "mainstary of self-rescue" was a pocket knife to cut the rope with. Or did you mean "self" in reference to the "team"?

[Thinker]

jja wrote:

this is a mule knot:

http://wac.icomm.ca/classes/climbingclass/knots/Mule.html

 

I didn't know what it was either, I've always done the wrap around the leg thing - but this seems way better.

 

At great risk of starting a flame attack on my avatar, I'll add this:

 

The link is actually to a page on the Washington Alpine Club's climbing class webpage. see web page and web page . (The images of the knots are obviously from an outside source.) The WAC's basic climbing class has just opened up the application period for this year's climbing class, and given the number of newbies who frequent the site I'll give the class a plug.

 

The class teaches basic techniques for climbing rock, snow, and ice in a small and intimate setting (30 - 32 students max each year), and provides plenty of supervised opportunity to practice the techniques. The class is designed for absolute beginners with some backcountry skills, but is often taken by climbers with some experience.

 

I, personally, had been rock climbing for a number of years in the midwest before moving to Seattle. Even so, I'd never rappelled on a munter hitch before, nor had I learned any self-rescue techniques....both of which I've learned thru the WAC. I was also completely lacking in steep snow and glacier climbing skills and knew enough to get some training before venturing too far out into the Cascades.

 

The jokes about group climbing directed at many of the alpine clubs are indeed funny and not without the occasional justification. However, learning skills in that environment can be a reasonably safe way to go. It's also the most accessible to most beginners unless they are lucky enough to have a mentor willing to get them up to speed. It's up to you to choose then how you spend the rest of your climbing time, whether as a alpine club drone on group climbs, as an independent agent, or some combination of the two. It all depends on your skill level, your confidence, and perceived risk.

 

Check out the class info on the website. I'll be happy to provide more of my personal opinions on the subject if you're genuinely interested.

 

I'll also cross post this to the Newbie section.

[jja]

Step 1. Go to google.com

Step 2. Type mule knot and click Search

Step 3. Click on first search result

Step 4. See cool pic, post url on cc.com

 

Absolutely no thinking was involved in any of this

[texplorer]

Flebeb,

It was valley hardman, Jim Bridwell who said he only uses four knots. I also use 4 knots with rope and one with webbing.