SAR! GOOD OR BAD!

[bandguy]

Please post here.

[vegetablebelay]

Wow, bandguy is a lot more productive than deadguy ever was!

[allthumbs]

No shit, but who gave him two stars?

[Peter_Puget]

Hey look at the new TLG In Action Post!

[MntnrMichael]

I second the question!

 

SAR is good!

[Cpt.Caveman]

 

 

[MntnrMichael]

bandguy sure is popular, two active threads about himself.

[Stefan]

You will think they are awesome when you get rescued.

 

They are awesome.

[North_by_Northwest]

But don't you think the results are kinda skewed since you won't get to think or even live if they're incompetent?

Not to bust on SAR after the time and effort they put in, but the SAR guys I have met have been pretty bad, both in respect to knowledge and physical conditioning. I'm sure there are many exceptions to this statement, though, and I hope they're around if I need them.

 

From the Captain's poll it looks like we should all just bow to Erden.

[Jason_Martin]

It all depends on the locals. In some places it's quite good, whereas in others it's quite bad.

 

Some SAR guys are in shape and some aren't, but in my experience there tends to be trends. In some cases the guys work out and practice their skills, whereas in others they sit around and admire the stickers on their cars.

 

Jason

[North_by_Northwest]

Probly right.

 

Hey how's the climbing weather in Vegas right now? Windy?

Or are you in Seattle? I'm heading down there soon.

[Jason_Martin]

In Vegas for a few more days then back up to Seatown. It has been quite windy here. I was blown off the crux of a sport route yesterday morning. Red Rocks got snow yesterday afternoon.

 

Jason

[gapertimmy]

SAR is good, anyone who volunteers for the good of others is a damn good thing.

[j_b]

SAR is good because without SAR we'd have nothing. Anyone thinks professional rescue personel would be a good thing?

[iain]

no, there's not enough demand to pay for that in the pnw and people would come to expect a service for which they've paid when they get in trouble.

[troubleski]

I think there is a big difference between looking for lost kids in the woods and technical SAR. I think it is all good... but it needs to be used appropriately.

[Freeman]

Wow, those of us who have made a 30 year commitment to helping our fellow climbers sure appreciate the big vote of confidence from this forum. Makes me wonder why I do it.

 

Chelan County Mountain Rescue

[remlec]

Freeman, not to worry. Most of us appreciate greatly the efforts of SAR (especially the volunteers) but are too self absorbed to admit it till a life is hanging in the balance.

[j_b]

no, there's not enough demand to pay for that in the pnw

 

do we know this for certain. How many SAR outings per season on this side of the mountains? Such personel could also respond to other things than mountain rescue.

 

people would come to expect a service for which they've paid when they get in trouble.

 

these people are already here, it just comes with climbing being popular. Just consider the handholding that is expected on Rainier.

 

 

[Freeman]

If you think SAR is not good now wait until you see the changes in Chelan after the first of the year. You probably won't want to get hurt here.

 

btw - Cavey - nice poll, 26.97 percent of the 26 votes agree with one of the options - the rest? Hope you didn't pay too much for the software.

[iain]

I can only speak from the experience I have with mtn rescue here in Oregon. There are not enough climbing accidents between Rainier and Shasta to justify having a paid rescue service. Perhaps this is not the case in the North Cascades, but I doubt it. Since it is a nat'l park I would assume there are some paid rangers, but perhaps they get helo assistance from the military as well, like Rainier. As is, the major costs in a rescue are helicopter-related, and these are frequently if not always absorbed by the military as training budget. When the county has to contract helicopter service, prices become more of an issue. In Oregon, mountain rescue is frequently called to all kinds of non-mountain related accidents or more often, searches, as we are certified to operate at the general SAR level too, and can lead those operations if needed. Things get ugly when money is involved and there is a good group of very capable individuals willing to volunteer their time to do this job, and it's worked pretty well for the past few decades here in Oregon.

[Jason_Martin]

I didn't mean to say that SAR is bad. And I agree that anybody who puts in time to help others is doing a good thing. However, there are definately those in these organizations that should be in the mountains and there are those who should be driving the vans.

 

In my one experience with SAR, those who were assisting in the rescue were out of shape and were adding to the hazard at hand. They had a really really hard time keeping up with the rest of us involved in the rescue.

 

Now I know lots of SAR guys who are in shape and would have been fine. A lot of them read this board. So I don't want to sound like I'm putting SAR down. I think it is an important if not necessary resource in the Pacific Northwest and I appreciate all of you who are putting in time with the organization.

 

Jason

[iain]

You just replied to me so I don't know if you were directing that at me or not. I didn't feel you were putting anyone down, just speaking the truth of the matter. We have had to ditch plans before and help take care of members in other SAR groups before. I completely agree with you.

[j_b]

Freeman: I am not sure your response was addressed to me but I am appreciative of SAR and their work but I am also aware of the limitations of a volunteer organization. Moreover rescues are also not strictly the domain of SAR but also the military "in training".

 

Iain: so since the military and park rangers are involved there is a hidden cost that should be accounted for. Was an analysis of this summer Mt. Hood helo crash ever made public? I don't mean to criticize the poor souls who risked their lives to rescue these folks, but it may point to a serious problem since as we know the rule number #1 of rescue is not to compound the problem (and they were apparently lucky).

[iain]

Yes it was, a military analysis attributed the crash to pilot error. The enormity of the military budget deals with training accidents like this. As for the ground teams, PDX Mtn Rescue had command of that incident and is a non-profit that survives on donations. American Medical Response were the only compensated individuals on the mountain (besides the sheriff's deputies at the lodge and the initial response from Timberline Ski Patrol). Since the 304th Air Force Reserve were the ones who crashed the helicopter and they are paid, I don't see where you are going with this.