TimL Posted September 18, 2001 Share Posted September 18, 2001 Any beta about the route would be appreciated. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted September 18, 2001 Share Posted September 18, 2001 Haven’t done Hyperspace but here is my review of Iconoclast. Despite being hyped in previous guides Iconoclast is a completely mediocre route with sections of dirty poor quality rock. It was so unenjoyable that I took Hyperspace off my list. If viewed as a separate route the first few pitches would make a fairly enjoyable 5.9 route but still not a four star route. Friends who have done Hyperspace think my poor impression of the route would have continued had I. I was very disappointed with Iconoclast but would agree that it is harder than the Grand Wall. To be fair I should note some of my friend love Hyperspace climbing it at least once every year. Getting to the ledge is omitted. A – Original Route (5.8): Climb left past a bolt to a corner which is then followed to a belay at a large horn. B “Psychopath” (5.11b): Climb the obvious crack. From the crux to the top this pitch is difficult to protect and can be a bit grainy. The crux is closer to face climbing than crack. Belay at the horn described in variation “A”. TCUs very helpful. 1. (5.8/9) Climb up and right past dirty rock to an obvious handcrack leading through a overhang. A blocky belay ledge is reached shortly after turning the overhang. 2. (5.10D) Ascend the corner to a bolt belay slightly below a small tree. This pitch is dirty, contains funky rock and has mediocre and generally small protection. It fairly continuously difficult as well. TCUs helpful. 3. (5.10C) Continue up the corner until it is possible to clip a bolt on the right wall. Note this corner is contain small tree bushes. From here move up and right to the arete formed by the outside edge of the corner. Turn the corner and continue up knobs passing a bolt. After the second bolt on this pitch there is a 30’-40’ runout with a 5.7 move immediately before the belay. Small runners can be used to tie-off some of the knobs. 4. (5.8/9) Climb a handcrack in a LFC to anchors on the left side of Library Ledge. From here it is best to either join Edge of Space or Outer Space. The bolted finish to Iconoclast proper has old bolts and climbs through the dirtiest part of the face. With a 200’ foot rope I have heard that it is possible to combine pitches 3 & 4. From Library ledge there are several ways to finish the route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rat Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 on a somewhat related note, some shit-for-brains drilled a bolt station at the top of each of iconclast's two .10c pitches and added a chicken bolt on the second .10c pitch. these may disappear in the future since they are completely unnecessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrosaurus Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 Just search "Hyperspace" on this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dberdinka Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 It's long, it's hard. Much harder than the Grand Wall for instance. I think Nelson's topo in his Random Climbs in the Cascades book is fairly accurate. It's been a long time ,but for what it's worth here are some details. I don't remember using any gear bigger than a #3 Camalot. However I do remember using lots of gear smaller than that! I skipped the 10d slab start. So pitches were 1) 5.8 flake traverse 2) 5.8-9 trav around corner than easily up cracks 3) nice 10a hand crack through roof to ledge 4) 10c corner pitch long and taxing The route then leaves Iconoclast 5) 10a chicken heads to double cracks left of main corner 6) long 10c crack pitch in corner to hanging belay below crux slot (icky bush on this pitch) 7) 10d crux slot is protected well by nuts, you arm bar with your feet hanging out the bottom. Above slot, pumpy layback leads to mossy traverse left across face to belay belay final roof 8) 10a-b short pitch leads over roof to top An incredible rock climb, one of the hardest and possibly best I've ever done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrosaurus Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 quote: Originally posted by rat: on a somewhat related note, some shit-for-brains drilled a bolt station at the top of each of iconclast's two .10c pitches and added a chicken bolt on the second .10c pitch. these may disappear in the future since they are completely unnecessary. I've got the tools. Anyone want to go along. Next Wednesday is good for me. I assume that no one wants to claim responsibility for these bolts either. Another PNW legend? Rat, what size and style of bolts are these? Anyone have salient points to make before these bolts are removed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dberdinka Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 Go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatboy Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 I heard that someone had put in bolted rap anchors all the way down Outer Space a few years ago (maybe 3-4 years now?) As if that route needed something to make it more inviting to the masses! Obviously, they are now gone, as they should be. Anyone remember the story behind all that? Just curious. goat-lad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 As far as the anchors go not sure when they were put in but immediately to the right were remnants of old slings. Without a doubt the bolts with short lengths of chain are vastly preferable. In fact looking towards Orbit, the cliff is littered with rap slings in various states of decay. Since the alternative (slings) is a greater visible scar. I would say that they should not be removed. In fact the masses of fixed slings lower on Iconoclast are something of a mess as well. Be careful you don't become know as the "Ken Nichols" of Wenatchee. Instead of writing semi-erotic tales of bolt chopping (see below) try a well reasoned argument to persuade others of your viewpoint. I have noticed that the predominant "anti bolters" are all middle aged and seem to write with this expressly sexual style. Could it be an underlying pathology expressing itself thru this issue? Excerpt from Retro's previous post:"It made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside as I levered out the first bolt. And a powerful sense of satisfaction came over me as I hacksawed the bottom bolt and hammered the stump of the stud back into the hole." By the way thinking I might have been a bit strident with my Iconoclast remarks, I'll add this comment: despite the fact I thought the route was VERY mediocre the guy I climbed it with has done the route five times. [This message has been edited by Peter Puget (edited 09-19-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 Retrosaurus you a strong man planning to lug that heavy crowbar up a bunch of tough 10c pitches!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayduke Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 mmmm [This message has been edited by Hayduke (edited 09-19-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 3333333333333333333333 [This message has been edited by Cpt.Caveman (edited 09-19-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 I regret writing in a haphazard manner earlier today. My hasty sentence construction suggested that Retro’s post I was incorporating was his last. It was by no means his ‘last’ post but rather the first paragraph of his great work “Dan’s Dreadful Direct Restored.” Also I neglected to incorporate by reference Pope’s post of 9/18/01 to the thread “How to properly install a bolt…?” This will make my marks regarding the sexualization of these posts more cogent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slaphappy Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 Remove the protection bolt if you must but leave the goddamn anchors!!!! Why remove bolted anchors? Is that chicken shit too? Slings suck, they look like trash all over the cliff, at least bolted anchors with chains aren't a fuckin eyesore. Anchors are the core of the system, and if someone took the time and effort to put them there, leave them! I doubt it will detract from your climbing experience. (and yes, I'm completely capable of constructing my own equalized anchor system) Mitch, you are not the ethics police! Get off your fuckin high horse. You make me sick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rat Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 all the tatty rap slings are low on iconoclast (below the first .10c corner around shitty blocks and such). anybody who bailed out higher use to have to leave gear which would then be scarfed by the next party. both bolt anchors are above this point and are near fine cracks for natural gear (sorry, don't remember the make/model of the bolts but they are at least 3/8). the chicken bolt is near a fine chicken head for a tie-off. rip 'em. a friend recently did outer space and noticed a new bolt on remorse as well. seems like some folks may be looking to fill in the blanks on the wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slaphappy Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 I wasn't aware that lack of booty was a legitimate excuse for pulling bolted anchors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 Mr. Rat you are simply wrong with regard to the fact that there are no bail slings above the bottom of the first "10c" pitch. The remains of an sling-back-off anchor are located just right of the bolts atop this pitch. Of course if your statement is limited to the location of the current useable sling-rap-stations is true but meaningless given the fact that higher up the corner people would just use the bolt anchors. Slappy as I tried to suggest above and in a different way in my response to Pope, these guys are not interested in what anyone else thinks. The are not interested in the so called climbing community. They are more concerned with their position within the argument rather than the argument itself. Using our friend Retro as an example: In an earlier response to a post of mine he admitted to flattening hangers on a route at Vantage. He said he did it because he removed the bolts several times and they kept returning. Of course doing the right thing which was remove them again and again didn't appeal to him, so he chose to flatten the hangers. My rejoinder to his post was a series of questions asking how different people passing by might view the vandalized hangers. Of course it takes no imagination at all to realize the bads ways land managers could view such action. To make his point quickly he was willing to fuck up all climbers relationship with land managers! Cavey made a post saying I couldn't force Retro to argue. He was right. Someone asked a reasonable question regarding bolt placements and look at the insulting replies. Make no mistake these guys aren't heroes and I am more and more convinced their motivations are not based on anything other than vanity expressing itself thru the lens of "proper ethics". I am against alot of what has become grid bolting and was for the removal of the DDD bolts; however, the guys posting here are so full of BS that it's amazing. Look at Rat for example and his comments regarding slings - they are clearly incorrect. I was very frustrated this morning when I saw that this thread had turned into another BS bolt diatribe that I couldn't even return to it until after work. To the extent that the rock is a shared resource climbers must act acording to a shared sense of what is proper behavior. Retro and his kind just want to impose their will on all others. No attempt at persuasion is even attempted - no greater form of contempt for others can be shown. It is this contempt that shines so brightly in all their posts that I find so offensive. Thank goodness someone started a thread about kids in the outdoors so I was brought back to reality as to why I climb in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 Mitch: Please, walk a mile in another climber's shoes. Lead the route, then re-evaluate your decision to remove the bolts. I don't think you should chop bolts on a route you cannot climb. Maybe if you lead this climb you will understand why the bolters decided to drill. I am basing my assumption on the fact that you previously admitted to not being able to lead DDD and yet still felt compelled to chop the bolts on it. IMHO the same ethics that say you should drill a climb from the ground up also support that if you want to pull out bolts with a Gorilla bar, you'd better lead the climb in high style. If you would like, I'd be happy to climb this with you. We can flip a coin to see who leads the psychopath pitch. Send me an email and we can discuss this further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_w Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 I did OS earlier this year. When we got to the last pitch (1/2 pitch, low grade) we saw chain anchors about 20-30 feet left (when you are facing into the wall) and about 20 feet lower from the summit. We decide it was a rap route since we saw a few on the way up. We went for it. The rap was set up for a single rope and went down to the base of the crux pitch. They looked new\good with good ledges to stand on. That is about all I can remember about the raps. From what I have heard, it is quicker to do the walk off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayduke Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 Cheers. [This message has been edited by Hayduke (edited 09-19-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 333333333333333 [This message has been edited by Cpt.Caveman (edited 09-19-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrosaurus Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 Matt, Thanks for the offer but I have climbed Iconoclast multiple times. This includes the Psychopath pitch (which was excellent) and the RPM start (which was unremarkable other than it was scary with near- groundfall potential). Hyperspace too (thank you very much). If you still want to climb the route we can rock-paper-scissors to see who totes the Gorilla Bar. I can't believe all the deluded people that think that permanent alteration of the stone is preferrable to a bunch of tattered slings. I guess you people don't know how to break knots or own a pocket knife. It is obvious that everyone of you whiners that are bitching about what an eyesore old rapslings are climbed right past them. Take 30 seconds and remove them. I have a garbage bag full of that shit that I've been trying to figure out what to do with. Maybe I'll macrame it into a hammock or crochet a rug. Wake up! Mitch [This message has been edited by Retrosaurus (edited 09-20-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCKY Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 So Mitch is the one who smashed the bolts on Whipsaw and almost caused a ground fall by a fellow climber .Wacked out ethics???Chopping a first accent, wacked out ethics????Reherseing and pink pointing a crack and calling it a first accent ,wacked out ethics.GET A GRIP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJason Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 Did Iconoclast for the 5th time last June and wanted to clarify these bolts. The bolts at the top of the 1st 10c pitch replaced slings behind sketchy blocks that have shifted over time. Some of the sling material is still evident in this location as it was pinched off beyond removal when the blocks shifted. The bolted anchor on top of the upper 10c pitch is there to replace what was once was a living cedar tree. Repeated use of slings around this tree choked the remaining life out of it rendering it useless and a hazard to those below. The "chicken" bolt is in the same location as where the leader could first "sling" a branch on the tree. --Jon Still amazed at how much hatred this web site has generated in what was once a loose net community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 So how good is this Iconoclast route anyway? I want to climb it one day.. Perhaps before this season is up but I doubt it due to other commitments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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